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The substantial substance of your sustained subsistent substance has subdued me into subversion.

« Last edited by Iz on May 05, 2020, 11:24:47 AM »

Author Topic: 5 Towns/Rockaway Rabbonim Ban All Minyanim Due To COVID-19 (Split Topic)  (Read 48471 times)

Offline JMHO

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The letter posted earlier was not written by a 'local leader' or a 'letter writer'.

It was written by a Talmid Chachom and a Rav of one of the largest Shul's in the world, please get your facts straight before spewing your rant.

You might not understand every Rav or every letter but your public disrespect and bashing of Rabbanim and Daas Torah is nauseating.

Offline sammyp

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He was talking about people who davened with a minyan in violation of the Rabbonim. He wasn't talking about those Rabbonim that have a different opinion than his

Read carefully "Some rabbis and attendees at these services are well meaning but misguided. Others use the cover of piety. From their perspective, they see themselves as wiser than the community....."

Offline sammyp

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The letter posted earlier was not written by a 'local leader' or a 'letter writer'.

It was written by a Talmid Chachom and a Rav of one of the largest Shul's in the world, please get your facts straight before spewing your rant.

You might not understand every Rav or every letter but your public disrespect and bashing of Rabbanim and Daas Torah is nauseating.
I see. So only that letter writer has a right to bash other Rabonim and Daas Torah. Some of which are arguably at least as great as he. I know who he was referring to; actually more than one of the great Rabonim in town.

Great Rabbis don't write this way about their colleagues.  It doesn't matter if he has the greatest shul, at least in quantity, in the world. No Rabbi talks or writes that way. He must have gotten flack for this. That is the reason for letter 2.

Regardless, if this Rov and his congregation are the most machmir in the world on the Mitzvah of V'nishmartem, does he go on the same campaign about smoking and vaping? Does he blast his congregants who smoke? Does he blast other shuls who allow their congregants to vape? That is much more studied and well proven to be dangerous. Even going on some roller coasters are more dangerous than having a safe minyan. (They are now admitting the ban of these minyanim is an extra-step gezeira). Does he allow his congregants to go to amusement parks? All of a sudden now everyone needs to take on his chumra of V'nishmartem or they suffer from yuhara.

The truth is, I would not mix in or comment how a Rabbi runs his congregation. I even understand why a Rabbi would ban minyonim and that is not my issue. It is the tone of his letters and the bullying tactics which are being used against other Rabbis (which you might not be aware of). There is no place for that.

Offline S209

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Read carefully "Some rabbis and attendees at these services are well meaning but misguided. Others use the cover of piety. From their perspective, they see themselves as wiser than the community....."
He was clearly referring to those using the cover of piety in the following sentences when he called it yuhara. I can see why that would offend you.
Quote from: YitzyS
Quotes in a signature is annoying, as it comes across as an independent post.

Offline JMHO

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I see. So only that letter writer....
You lost me after this  ::)

Offline sammyp

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You lost me after this  ::)

Sorry. I should have realized you are not capable of understanding.

Offline Yehudaa

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Sorry. I should have realized you are not capable of understanding.
Your comments are nasty, attacking, and lack any substance.

Offline joeb1

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I see. So only that letter writer has a right to bash other Rabonim and Daas Torah. Some of which are arguably at least as great as he. I know who he was referring to; actually more than one of the great Rabonim in town.

Great Rabbis don't write this way about their colleagues.  It doesn't matter if he has the greatest shul, at least in quantity, in the world. No Rabbi talks or writes that way. He must have gotten flack for this. That is the reason for letter 2.

Regardless, if this Rov and his congregation are the most machmir in the world on the Mitzvah of V'nishmartem, does he go on the same campaign about smoking and vaping? Does he blast his congregants who smoke? Does he blast other shuls who allow their congregants to vape? That is much more studied and well proven to be dangerous. Even going on some roller coasters are more dangerous than having a safe minyan. (They are now admitting the ban of these minyanim is an extra-step gezeira). Does he allow his congregants to go to amusement parks? All of a sudden now everyone needs to take on his chumra of V'nishmartem or they suffer from yuhara.

The truth is, I would not mix in or comment how a Rabbi runs his congregation. I even understand why a Rabbi would ban minyonim and that is not my issue. It is the tone of his letters and the bullying tactics which are being used against other Rabbis (which you might not be aware of). There is no place for that.

Several rabbanim in 5T have the same issue with the letter

Offline ushdadude

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He was talking about people who davened with a minyan in violation of the Rabbonim. He wasn't talking about those Rabbonim that have a different opinion than his


In many cases they are one and the same.

Offline NTorch

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Here in WH, the Shul president posted a message with some great lines:

Quote
Message from the President
 
As tonight begins another Shabbos with the Shul being closed and the crisis continuing, I recently have heard a few comments regarding Shul and Shabbos:
 
1.   During this time they feel they are davening with so much more Kavanah.
2.   If itís good enough for Rabbi Kelemer and Rabbi Goller to daven at home then my block Minyan can wait.
3.   Some telling me they have been davening in their living room, but now they moved to the dining room as there is better Kiddush.
4.   Some stating there is a bright side as they havenít spoken during davening over the last seven weeks.
 

Offline yitzgar

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In many cases they are one and the same.
That is just messed up

Offline joeb1

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The line is I havenít spoken in Shul for last 7 weeks

Offline ushdadude

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That is just messed up
Why? The rabbanim who have a different opinion than him davened with a minyan following their own psak.

Offline yitzgar

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Why? The rabbanim who have a different opinion than him davened with a minyan following their own psak.
He seemed to imply that all Rabbonim were against it. I have no personal knowledge so I was taking that at face value. Which Rabbonim said it was ok to have minyonim until now?

Offline sammyp

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He seemed to imply that all Rabbonim were against it. I have no personal knowledge so I was taking that at face value. Which Rabbonim said it was ok to have minyonim until now?

That is the issue. He was implying that anybody who disagrees with him are not worthy of being Rabonim. When in fact many Rabonim disagreed with him, albeit with different approaches. Some (great Rabonim) have been davening and/or leading safe legal minyanim this entire time. (In some cases even davening for the amud when they were a chiyuv.) Some were afraid to do that, but privately allowed and/or encouraged others to do so. And some went along out of fear. There were also many who agreed with him too.

There was a lot of bullying in the background which prevented many Rabonim to express what they really feel. Those Rabonim wanted achdus more than anything else. But it has come to a point where although one side was playing nice, some on the pther side refuse to do so.

Offline yitzgar

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And still nobody will say names. Which Rabbonim said to daven with a minyan the whole time?

Offline aygart

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That is the issue. He was implying that anybody who disagrees with him are not worthy of being Rabonim. When in fact many Rabonim disagreed with him, albeit with different approaches. Some (great Rabonim) have been davening and/or leading safe legal minyanim this entire time. (In some cases even davening for the amud when they were a chiyuv.) Some were afraid to do that, but privately allowed and/or encouraged others to do so. And some went along out of fear. There were also many who agreed with him too.

There was a lot of bullying in the background which prevented many Rabonim to express what they really feel. Those Rabonim wanted achdus more than anything else. But it has come to a point where although one side was playing nice, some on the pther side refuse to do so.

So you call the way you were writing over here playing nice or you are on the side refusing to do so?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline ushdadude

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He seemed to imply that all Rabbonim were against it. I have no personal knowledge so I was taking that at face value. Which Rabbonim said it was ok to have minyonim until now?
there are more than 57 rabbanim in 5T. Look at the letter and see who isn't on there. some were mentioned upthread

Offline sammyp

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there are more than 57 rabbanim in 5T. Look at the letter and see who isn't on there. some were mentioned upthread

Some on there claim to have never signed. Some on there signed because they had to, but privately told people they can daven by safe legal minyanim.

Offline sammyp

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So you call the way you were writing over here playing nice or you are on the side refusing to do so?

I am not playing anything. I am nice to both sides. As long as they are acting nice to each other.