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« Last edited by Iz on May 05, 2020, 11:24:47 AM »

Author Topic: 5 Towns/Rockaway Rabbonim Ban All Minyanim Due To COVID-19 (Split Topic)  (Read 34815 times)

Offline ushdadude

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Apparently the rabbonim allowing them do not feel it is enough of one to change their minds.
i don't understand
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Offline aygart

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i don't understand

If they felt that it was a reason not to make minyanim then why would they be telling people to go make minyanim?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline EliJelly

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someone tried arguing that no minyan should be allowed because it's breaking the achdus. If everyone isfollowing their own Rav and being respectful of the other side, is that actually a halachic consideration?
Forcing your Rav's opinion on others is more of "breaking the achdus".

Offline ushdadude

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Was just making sure it's not a legitimate argument that represents his Rav. He's stam spewing
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Offline ushdadude

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Any updates this week? Any Rav switch sides in either direction?
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Online S209

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Any updates this week? Any Rav switch sides in either direction?
Why would someone have to “switch sides” to issue a psak that is different based on new facts on the ground? Presumably some more Rabbanim are going to be allowing porch minyanim as the danger level (seemingly) subsides, much as more Rabbanim stopped allowing minyanim as the danger levels (seemingly) rose in the beginning. They weren’t switching sides, the metzius was changing.
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Offline ushdadude

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Why would someone have to “switch sides” to issue a psak that is different based on new facts on the ground? Presumably some more Rabbanim are going to be allowing porch minyanim as the danger level (seemingly) subsides, much as more Rabbanim stopped allowing minyanim as the danger levels (seemingly) rose in the beginning. They weren’t switching sides, the metzius was changing.
That's what I meant. Thanks for clarifying.
Did any more rabbanim allow for minyanim this week? Conversely did any rescind their heter?
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Offline yaakov35

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Why would someone have to “switch sides” to issue a psak that is different based on new facts on the ground? Presumably some more Rabbanim are going to be allowing porch minyanim as the danger level (seemingly) subsides, much as more Rabbanim stopped allowing minyanim as the danger levels (seemingly) rose in the beginning. They weren’t switching sides, the metzius was changing.
R u stam making hock??? You clearly don't live in 5ts, so why are u just making thing up? In 5ts it very much is sides, even now.

Online S209

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R u stam making hock??? You clearly don't live in 5ts, so why are u just making thing up? In 5ts it very much is sides, even now.
Huh?
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Online S209

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R u stam making hock??? You clearly don't live in 5ts, so why are u just making thing up? In 5ts it very much is sides, even now.
So some Rabbanim have advocated staying home before there was any danger, and some Rabbanim feel you should come to Shul with measles?
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Offline JMHO

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R u stam making hock??? You clearly don't live in 5ts, so why are u just making thing up? In 5ts it very much is sides, even now.
No it's not. Stop trolling.

Offline yaakov35

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So some Rabbanim have advocated staying home before there was any danger, and some Rabbanim feel you should come to Shul with measles?
It is a side thing. Almost rabbonim wrte against minyanim, then white shul joined the pro minyan group. Yes its sides, how to view this entire matziv, dr glatt still didn't change his opinion. The rabbonim switched sides.

Offline yaakov35

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No it's not. Stop trolling.
If you would knew what was going on you would know its true. So the fact that your saying otherwise indicates that.

Offline good sam

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If you would knew what was going on you would know its true. So the fact that your saying otherwise indicates that.
No true Scotsman?
If you don't care why would you comment?
HT: DMYD

Offline Dan

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R u stam making hock??? You clearly don't live in 5ts, so why are u just making thing up? In 5ts it very much is sides, even now.
Discuss things respectfully on this forum or you will be asked to leave.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline yaakov35

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Discuss things respectfully on this forum or you will be asked to leave.
I was being very respectful. There is a huge machlokes going on now, someone asked a legitimate question and was answered with speculation.
If someone posting about another community, anyone would have same response.

Offline sammyp

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Any updates this week? Any Rav switch sides in either direction?

It's not really a matter of switching sides, but this is some of what went on:

Many Rabonim have determined through their medical advisers, Daas Torah and the trust of their mispalelim, that minyanim can now be open with specific guidelines.

There are two issues which are being heavily worked on. Number one is the law. It has to be ok'd by the Police Commissioner and the Fire Cheif. The Five Towns and Far Rockaway are both in different situations regarding this issue.

The second issue is ayva and causing a Chilul Hashem.

Every neighborhood and every situation is different. Where porch minyanim are feasible, that is the safest, most legal and usually no issue with neighbors. When they are not, then usually the next option with the least ayva is in very large backyards, possibly using neighboring yards with minyan split if feasible. Unfortunately, that option poses the biggest issue legally since any size gathering is officially prohibited on private property. A minyan spread across (frum) front lawns with proper distancing is 100% legal, but depending on the block, it can be an issue with ayva.

Some have solved this issue by contacting neighbors, sending them trays and letters explaining what was going on. This has worked well.

Last week, major lobbying was done and permission was granted for backyard minyanim with certain conditions. Unfortunately, a Rabbi from the anti-minyan crowed found out and lobbied himself. He convinced the government officials to revoke the permission. He even convinced them to send a letter to all involved Rabbis warning them not to make any backyard minyanim ot they will face major fines. They were told the police had locations and would visit on Shabbos. This is not a secret and this Rabbi is proud of what he did. There are unconfirmed reports that he later apologized to his colleagues, but the damage was done.

Right now the Governor has placed these restrictions in the hands of local officials to interpret and enforce. There is major lobying being done now in Albany to get these minyanim legalized by the Governor, and to even open shuls, or at least their parking lots, with certain restrictions.

IY"H by next Shabbos these issues will be resolved. There is a large group of Rabonim and Askonim working on this behind the scenes. It will be very sad is everyone is allowed to go to parks and beaches, but not daven with ten people on a lawn.

There is also a large group of Churches working together on these issues.

That is the update.


Offline Yef

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Thank for the update

Offline Dan

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I was being very respectful. There is a huge machlokes going on now, someone asked a legitimate question and was answered with speculation.
If someone posting about another community, anyone would have same response.
No, the tone is not acceptable per forum rules: https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=116384.0

Thanks for your understanding and let's all try to keep civil discourse during these trying times.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline ushdadude

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It's not really a matter of switching sides, but this is some of what went on:

Many Rabonim have determined through their medical advisers, Daas Torah and the trust of their mispalelim, that minyanim can now be open with specific guidelines.

There are two issues which are being heavily worked on. Number one is the law. It has to be ok'd by the Police Commissioner and the Fire Cheif. The Five Towns and Far Rockaway are both in different situations regarding this issue.

The second issue is ayva and causing a Chilul Hashem.

Every neighborhood and every situation is different. Where porch minyanim are feasible, that is the safest, most legal and usually no issue with neighbors. When they are not, then usually the next option with the least ayva is in very large backyards, possibly using neighboring yards with minyan split if feasible. Unfortunately, that option poses the biggest issue legally since any size gathering is officially prohibited on private property. A minyan spread across (frum) front lawns with proper distancing is 100% legal, but depending on the block, it can be an issue with ayva.

Some have solved this issue by contacting neighbors, sending them trays and letters explaining what was going on. This has worked well.

Last week, major lobbying was done and permission was granted for backyard minyanim with certain conditions. Unfortunately, a Rabbi from the anti-minyan crowed found out and lobbied himself. He convinced the government officials to revoke the permission. He even convinced them to send a letter to all involved Rabbis warning them not to make any backyard minyanim ot they will face major fines. They were told the police had locations and would visit on Shabbos. This is not a secret and this Rabbi is proud of what he did. There are unconfirmed reports that he later apologized to his colleagues, but the damage was done.

Right now the Governor has placed these restrictions in the hands of local officials to interpret and enforce. There is major lobying being done now in Albany to get these minyanim legalized by the Governor, and to even open shuls, or at least their parking lots, with certain restrictions.

IY"H by next Shabbos these issues will be resolved. There is a large group of Rabonim and Askonim working on this behind the scenes. It will be very sad is everyone is allowed to go to parks and beaches, but not daven with ten people on a lawn.

There is also a large group of Churches working together on these issues.

That is the update.
https://5townscentral.com/2020/05/15/covid-19-update-may-15-from-dr-aaron-glattmd/
Quote

Pursuant to Executive Order 202.10 , all non-essential gatherings of individuals of any size for any reasons (e.g. worship services, parties, celebrations, or other social events) are canceled or postponed.

Further, individuals should not gather in houses of worship, homes, or other locations for religious services until the end of this public health emergency. If possible, religious leaders should consider alternative forms of worship, replacing in-person gatherings with virtual services, such as phone or conference calls, video conference calls, or online streaming.
In other words, the Governor has to first permit us to return to any sort of public religious life (minyanim, weddings, levayos, etc.) as well as educational life (schools and camps) before our rabbonim can decide what is halachically allowable. In the words of a great talmid chocham – we can be more machmir than the governor, but not more meikal. More to come about that at our 9:30 PM Motzei Shabbos Zoom conference.


So the minyan ban seems to be based on a strict interpretation of the law, not medical advice anymore. Maybe lawyers sold be consulted instead of just doctors.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2020, 12:01:59 AM by ushdadude »
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