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The substantial substance of your sustained subsistent substance has subdued me into subversion.

« Last edited by Iz on May 05, 2020, 11:24:47 AM »

Author Topic: 5 Towns/Rockaway Rabbonim Ban All Minyanim Due To COVID-19 (Split Topic)  (Read 48378 times)

Offline sammyp

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #120 on: May 04, 2020, 12:00:28 AM »
As someone who lost close ones to this I for one am very happy that our professionals wonít CHILL during a pandemic but make decisions based on on facts. We also closed down much earlier than Lakewood and Brooklyn- I have no problem in being in a more enlightened community. From someone who has lived here his whole life I can tell you we were never Lakewood or Brooklyn and I am glad our Rabbis are still deciding things for themselves not based on what Lakewood and Brooklyn is doing.

If you are looking for more that style - please go ahead - this community may not be for you.

Not sure what "style" you are talking about. I also lost many close ones. And the fact we closed earlier didn't help us, by the way.

What does more "enlightened" mean?!? I thought Torah is light and the more you have of it, the more enlightened you are.

And I hate to break it to you, many of the young and upcoming Rabbis in town are Lakewood trained. Maybe even most of them.Besides,  Lakewood had a lot less of this Covid stuff then we did.

Again, the difference between me and you is that I understand there are two sides. The majority (WORLDWIDE) and the minority. You need to follow your own Rabbi. You only can see one side. And your anti-Lakewood attitude just slipped through by mistake. Maybe there is something else deep down here that you weren't saying before.

P.S. Just out of curiosity, before Covid, are you the type of person who always goes to shul to daven with a minyan? Three times a day, seven days a week? Do you usually come on time and leave on time? Do you talk at all during davening and/or during leining? Do you think about the words you are saying when davening? How long do you spend davening now that you are home?

Is minyan really important to you? Or is all that for Brooklyn and Lakewood?!?

Offline sammyp

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #121 on: May 04, 2020, 12:01:36 AM »
Dr Fauci said there is almost no chance of catching the virus now?

If you test positive for antibodies. Just get tested.

Offline reed

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #122 on: May 04, 2020, 12:02:00 AM »
We can all participate in the 5t market though. Or get delivered from seasons if gg is full

Thatís what Iíve been doing havenít stepped into GG since this started. Not sure what that has to do with minyan though. GG is bad and minyan is Bad - so we should do both? I donít understand

Offline joeb1

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #123 on: May 04, 2020, 12:02:24 AM »
And we can buy groceries at this minyan? Cmon man complete the thought here

Just like they went nuclear on the minyanim they can easily do so for groceries
Shut them down and make it pickup only or delivery
Would save more lives than minyanim
Ppl walk around and use their hands a lot more in groceries
And babysitters : just ridiculous
May as well screw social distancing If having help bring their germs directly into your house

Offline ushdadude

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #124 on: May 04, 2020, 12:04:05 AM »
Thatís what Iíve been doing havenít stepped into GG since this started. Not sure what that has to do with minyan though. GG is bad and minyan is Bad - so we should do both? I donít understand
Was just pointing out that there is a safe way to feed the people who need to eat.

Offline ushdadude

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #125 on: May 04, 2020, 12:05:14 AM »
Just like they went nuclear on the minyanim they can easily do so for groceries
Shut them down and make it pickup only or delivery
Would save more lives than minyanim
Ppl walk around and use their hands a lot more in groceries
And babysitters : just ridiculous
May as well screw social distancing If having help bring their germs directly into your house


I tried making this argument and was told it's not the Rabbis place to mandate these things.
Not arguing one way or the other I was just bothered by the inconsistency too.

Offline reed

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #126 on: May 04, 2020, 12:05:26 AM »
No Iím pointing out that they are fighting 1. The wrong battle 2. Fight the whole battle if feel itís do or die  not 1/2  3. When you overdo things ppl slowly take you less seriously
All sep points all  legit
I do necessarily disagree with rabbis and doctors Iím just amused how they chose to go nuclear on minyanim ignoring way more serious issues and also not trying to compromise (which will ultimately lead to many ignoring them outright shortly which is even more dangerous )

I promise you this it hurts Rabbi Brown, Rabbi Forst, Rabbi Jeager and Rabbi Finer a lot more to not daven with a minyan than it does me. (But not some others on this forum it seems we have some real tzadikim here). If they are not davening with a minyan and tell me not to because itís a sakanah - then I donít I accept it.

We trust these people with our most important shailas but now we all
Know better.

Offline joeb1

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #127 on: May 04, 2020, 12:05:44 AM »
Be consistent
They had the power for the time being to shut 5t davening bitzibur down for the most part do the same for all if truly believe the doctors
Ppl davening inside and going out to supermarket and walks etc etc etc kinda defeats the purpose

Offline reed

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #128 on: May 04, 2020, 12:06:14 AM »
Was just pointing out that there is a safe way to feed the people who need to eat.

Yup itís what Iíve been doing.

Offline reed

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #129 on: May 04, 2020, 12:08:21 AM »
Be consistent
They had the power for the time being to shut 5t davening bitzibur down for the most part do the same for all if truly believe the doctors
Ppl davening inside and going out to supermarket and walks etc etc etc kinda defeats the purpose

So letís say there was a failure on the supermarket front - therefore they should say letís have dangerous minyanim?

Iím really trying to follow the logic here. I hear the supermarket gripe but canít follow it to the minyanim

Offline ushdadude

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #130 on: May 04, 2020, 12:09:48 AM »
So letís say there was a failure on the supermarket front - therefore they should say letís have dangerous minyanim?

Iím really trying to follow the logic here. I hear the supermarket gripe but canít follow it to the minyanim
I assume he's bothered by why the rabbanim aren't doing anything about it. At least I am. The answer seems to be that they can't

Offline justaregularguy

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #131 on: May 04, 2020, 12:12:33 AM »
Wow, last time I checked this thread people were posting things like ď undercover cop on 878 watch out ď
Things def heated up here! 🔥
nothings impossible- the word itself says Im possible

Offline ushdadude

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #132 on: May 04, 2020, 12:12:59 AM »
Wow, last time I checked this thread people Where posting things like ď undercover cop on 878 watch out ď
Things def heated up here! 🔥


Welcome to DDF covid edition

Offline reed

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #133 on: May 04, 2020, 12:13:51 AM »
I assume he's bothered by why the rabbanim aren't doing anything about it. At least I am. The answer seems to be that they can't

Ok. If I had to guess the supermarkets claimed they canít go all delivery that they donít have the staff (probably BS and they should be forced to make it work after we spend so much money there) and the Rabbis canít say donít eat. They do say limit your trips etc only go for what you need. But I agree failure on the supermarket front itís much easier for the rebbanim to control minyinim which are in the spiritual realm and which they can pasken on.

Supermarket I place the blame much more on the town askanim

Offline ushdadude

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #134 on: May 04, 2020, 12:15:37 AM »
Ok. If I had to guess the supermarkets claimed they canít go all delivery that they donít have the staff (probably BS and they should be forced to make it work after we spend so much money there) and the Rabbis canít say donít eat. They do say limit your trips etc only go for what you need. But I agree failure on the supermarket front itís much easier for the rebbanim to control minyinim which are in the spiritual realm and which they can pasken on.

Supermarket I place the blame much more on the town askanim


From what I hear the future meetings will include rabbanim, medical professionals, and the local politicians.

Offline sammyp

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #135 on: May 04, 2020, 12:25:27 AM »
Maybe the real reason they banned minyanim is because these Rabonim feel the lack of respect of the shuls, and the talking during davening can be more dangerous than the benefit of davening with a minyan. After the Security issues, many Rabonim tried to stop the talking and lift up the kavod of the beis hakneses. People didn't listen. Reb Chaim Kanievsky told Rabbi Feiner that in order for a shul to be safe, there needs to be no talking during davening.

Reb Chaim actually writes in his sefer how terrible and lack of respect it is to talk during any part of Tefilah when Hashem is standing there listening to those who are actually talking to Him.

Since we are in sakanah, these Rabbis probably decided it's better to close the shuls altogether then to have them open with disrespect.

Now it makes sense!

(And maybe that's also why Lakewood is different)

Offline reed

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #136 on: May 04, 2020, 12:27:30 AM »
Not sure what "style" you are talking about. I also lost many close ones. And the fact we closed earlier didn't help us, by the way.

What does more "enlightened" mean?!? I thought Torah is light and the more you have of it, the more enlightened you are.

And I hate to break it to you, many of the young and upcoming Rabbis in town are Lakewood trained. Maybe even most of them.Besides,  Lakewood had a lot less of this Covid stuff then we did.

Again, the difference between me and you is that I understand there are two sides. The majority (WORLDWIDE) and the minority. You need to follow your own Rabbi. You only can see one side. And your anti-Lakewood attitude just slipped through by mistake. Maybe there is something else deep down here that you weren't saying before.

P.S. Just out of curiosity, before Covid, are you the type of person who always goes to shul to daven with a minyan? Three times a day, seven days a week? Do you usually come on time and leave on time? Do you talk at all during davening and/or during leining? Do you think about the words you are saying when davening? How long do you spend davening now that you are home?

Is minyan really important to you? Or is all that for Brooklyn and Lakewood?!?

Oy vey - against my better judgement

1. Look up definition of enlightened. Canít help you there.
2. These Lakewood trained rabbis facts are about as accurate as the other information you posted here. Agav I learned in BMG - absolutely loved my time there. Hold it in the highest esteem and remain very close to Rav Olshin and have had the Lakewood RĒY grace my home here.
3. And to satisfy your curiosity - one time I spoke Bain gavra ligavra pains me until this day and now that you mention it is probably the reason why I hate minyanim so much and would like it shut down for good. Thanks for reminding me.



Offline sammyp

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #137 on: May 04, 2020, 12:35:07 AM »
Oy vey - against my better judgement

1. Look up definition of enlightened. Canít help you there.
2. These Lakewood trained rabbis facts are about as accurate as the other information you posted here. Agav I learned in BMG - absolutely loved my time there. Hold it in the highest esteem and remain very close to Rav Olshin and have had the Lakewood RĒY grace my home here.
3. And to satisfy your curiosity - one time I spoke Bain gavra ligavra pains me until this day and now that you mention it is probably the reason why I hate minyanim so much and would like it shut down for good. Thanks for reminding me.

Enlightened is a term used for the maskilim.

If you learnt in BMG, then went off, its even worse. You should have more respect for that community. 

Offline reed

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #138 on: May 04, 2020, 12:38:13 AM »
Enlightened is a term used for the maskilim.

If you learnt in BMG, then went off, its even worse. You should have more respect for that community.

Iím going to regret this. Went off of what?

Offline joeb1

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #139 on: May 04, 2020, 12:55:13 AM »
Enlightened is a term used for the maskilim.

If you learnt in BMG, then went off, its even worse. You should have more respect for that community.

I am sort of siding with you and you are killing your argument with posts like this  :-X