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The substantial substance of your sustained subsistent substance has subdued me into subversion.

« Last edited by Iz on May 05, 2020, 11:24:47 AM »

Author Topic: 5 Towns/Rockaway Rabbonim Ban All Minyanim Due To COVID-19 (Split Topic)  (Read 18611 times)

Offline ReadsTheT&C

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #180 on: May 04, 2020, 04:23:23 PM »
Glad your you're showing off your ignorance in a way everyone can see it.
FTFY

Offline S209

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #181 on: May 04, 2020, 04:30:03 PM »
Glad your showing off your ignorance in a way everyone can see it.

Far Rockaway and the Five Towns closed before Lakewood.Both Shuls and schools. It was the Friday before public schools closed. Passaic also closed before Lakewood. Brooklyn was spotty. The Sefardim closed before Lakewood too. Lakewood only closed when they were required to by law.

As you might not be aware, right now Five Towns/ Far Rockaway is doing much better than most other places in the region. Numbers are all the way down. And we are still the only place where the anti-minyan activists are going full force.

In addition, you don't belong on this thread if you live in Lakewood. Besides the fact, you simply don't understand the argument. According to Rabbi/Dr. Glatt, and according to some of our local Rabbis, you committed a grave sin by davening with a minyan this morning. Nobody believes you can violate the social distancing rules required by law. The question is to add additional takanos. As I said, either you didn't read the thread, or you simply don't understand what you read.
Those places had infections and deaths before Lakewood, Lakewood closed before there were infections and deaths reported there.

Did you misread any other part of my post?
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Offline Iz

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #182 on: May 04, 2020, 04:30:48 PM »
?
I am asking for a source for such an incredible chiddush. And I am still waiting for one.

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #183 on: May 04, 2020, 04:34:40 PM »
5 towns was closed before most places in tri-state thats 100% true. They did get hit very hard originally but now its quiet. And I can back you up that a very large number of rabbanim are pro minyan and just aren't interested in the politics behind it. My brother is a very close Talmid of R Jaeger and he told me that the rosh yeshiva is being very protective about this situation because he's very close to it and feels a huge responsibility. But otherwise lots of local rabbanim are giving the go ahead to outdoor minyanim. And if someone doesn't know the exact details of the happenings in the 5ts community, Idk why they would be commenting here.
And anyone davening with a minyan now, no matter the circumstance should stop complaining.
Oh, I get it, I canít call someone out for claiming COVID is the same thing as the flu if Iím not from your part of town? My bad. I didnít realize other people donít get opinions.

Your ludicrous post reminds me of someone attacking @Dan the other day for ďtrolling and hijacking his threadĒ.
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Offline Mootkim

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #184 on: May 04, 2020, 04:36:08 PM »
I am asking for a source for such an incredible chiddush. And I am still waiting for one.
see attached

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #185 on: May 04, 2020, 04:56:07 PM »
Those places had infections and deaths before Lakewood, Lakewood closed before there were infections and deaths reported there.

Did you misread any other part of my post?

No deaths at that point. And no confirmed infections. They closed on suspicions of infections.

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #186 on: May 04, 2020, 04:57:44 PM »
Oh, I get it, I canít call someone out for claiming COVID is the same thing as the flu if Iím not from your part of town? My bad. I didnít realize other people donít get opinions.

Your ludicrous post reminds me of someone attacking @Dan the other day for ďtrolling and hijacking his threadĒ.

You are a troll. You keep on misquoting me out of context. You should apply for a job at CNN

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #187 on: May 04, 2020, 05:13:07 PM »
Oh, I get it, I canít call someone out for claiming COVID is the same thing as the flu if Iím not from your part of town? My bad. I didnít realize other people donít get opinions.

Your ludicrous post reminds me of someone attacking @Dan the other day for ďtrolling and hijacking his threadĒ.
I legitimately have no idea what your problem is, but you really need help. רפואה שלימה

Offline sammyp

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #188 on: May 04, 2020, 05:18:58 PM »
see attached

I don't know who wrote what you posted, but his "tzu shtels" have no shaychus. In Halichos Shlomo he is saying that when Chazal were originally mesaken a mitzvah, they wanted to be mesaken it it in a way which there would not even be the smallest chance of a sakana can out of their Mitzva. Here we are talking after the fact, when we already have the Mitzva. That is where the K'sav Sofer comes in. Once we have the Mitzvah, there is more of a shemira when doing the Mitzvah than there is when shopping. A small minute chance of danger is always around when going to shul. There are always germs floating around. There is always a danger driving in the streets or walking across the streets. But when the chashash reaches a certain level, it's not considered sakanah anymore. That is when shomer pesayim kicks in.

Where we are holding now, it is far more dangerous to smoke or vape then it is to even daven in a shul with proper precautions. And certainly to daven outside.

To answer the question why people shop and go out for other things, but not to daven with a minyan is simple. People really know it's not all that dangerous at this point when the proper precautions are taken.

It is true, some of the Rabonim will also tell you not to go shopping or to go out at all. But most of us are not conducting ourselves that way. There is a reason why the streets are a lot more full now than they were two weeks ago.

Also, if you have the anitbodies, the chances of getting it again are so minimal (according to Dr. Fauci),  it's hard to imagine that is called sakanah. And even if you would maybe maybe maybe possibly get it again, it would probably only be as severe as it was the first time. For most of us the effects were minimal, not a danger at all.

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #189 on: May 04, 2020, 05:31:50 PM »
would these discussions be as mean spirited if we were all sitting around a table with some affordably priced chulent and kugel (obv 6 feet between us, its a big table)? may we be zoche to do that soon, with the biyas hamabingo bemeheirah beyameinu.

Let's try to be nicer on both sides here, everyone is hurting and anxious and out of their routine, lets cut each other some slack. of course for those of us that think we need to be machmir on protecting lives and close minyanim, we can make our point, but nothing we will do here will change those who are secretly making minyanim, so we just make our points respectfully and hope our reasoning affects those who disagree at least to keep very careful to keep guidelines re spreading out etc.

Offline Mootkim

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #190 on: May 04, 2020, 05:33:12 PM »
I don't know who wrote what you posted, but his "tzu shtels" have no shaychus. In Halichos Shlomo he is saying that when Chazal were originally mesaken a mitzvah, they wanted to be mesaken it it in a way which there would not even be the smallest chance of a sakana can out of their Mitzva. Here we are talking after the fact, when we already have the Mitzva. That is where the K'sav Sofer comes in. Once we have the Mitzvah, there is more of a shemira when doing the Mitzvah than there is when shopping. A small minute chance of danger is always around when going to shul. There are always germs floating around. There is always a danger driving in the streets or walking across the streets. But when the chashash reaches a certain level, it's not considered sakanah anymore. That is when shomer pesayim kicks in.

Where we are holding now, it is far more dangerous to smoke or vape then it is to even daven in a shul with proper precautions. And certainly to daven outside.

To answer the question why people shop and go out for other things, but not to daven with a minyan is simple. People really know it's not all that dangerous at this point when the proper precautions are taken.

It is true, some of the Rabonim will also tell you not to go shopping or to go out at all. But most of us are not conducting ourselves that way. There is a reason why the streets are a lot more full now than they were two weeks ago.

Also, if you have the anitbodies, the chances of getting it again are so minimal (according to Dr. Fauci),  it's hard to imagine that is called sakanah. And even if you would maybe maybe maybe possibly get it again, it would probably only be as severe as it was the first time. For most of us the effects were minimal, not a danger at all.
Why is that called a "no shaychus tzushtel"? What you see from there is the importance of nothing bad coming out of a mitzva more so than other things and we need to be diligent about that. After the fact that there is an issur to eat on Yom Kippur, we still allow someone to eat on Yom Kippur for a safek PN. There always is shomer pesaim hashem, but that would be under normal circumstances like walking down the block like you said yourself. The current situation is not called a Normal circumstance. I don't understand what you are trying to bring from smoking and vaping though.
As for you saying that it is not dangerous now, the rabbanim obviously disagreed with that notion as they specifically wrote in their letter that "it would be at best a safek pikuach nefashos".

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #191 on: May 04, 2020, 05:38:43 PM »
I don't know who wrote what you posted, but his "tzu shtels" have no shaychus.
It is Rabbi Kanner from Toronto who is a tremendous talmid chachom.

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #192 on: May 04, 2020, 05:48:43 PM »
Why is that called a "no shaychus tzushtel"? What you see from there is the importance of nothing bad coming out of a mitzva more so than other things and we need to be diligent about that. After the fact that there is an issur to eat on Yom Kippur, we still allow someone to eat on Yom Kippur for a safek PN. There always is shomer pesaim hashem, but that would be under normal circumstances like walking down the block like you said yourself. The current situation is not called a Normal circumstance. I don't understand what you are trying to bring from smoking and vaping though.
As for you saying that it is not dangerous now, the rabbanim obviously disagreed with that notion as they specifically wrote in their letter that "it would be at best a safek pikuach nefashos".
Right, and welcome to the conversation. The conversationhere is that some local doctors are feeding alarmist's information to our local Rabonim and that is why they feel it is a safek pikuach nefashos to daven in a shul. To daven outside is definitely not a sakanh at all, as the Rabonim themselves write. It is an extra gezeira.

According to many, or most Rabonim, where we are holding right now is not even called a safek pikuach nefoshos when proper protocal is adhered to. My point was the level of sakanah now with the proper precautions is less sakanah than vaping. And for some reason there is no anti vaping ban.

I understand the proofs this shtikel is bringing, I am just saying it is arguable to make such a tzushtel. To make a miztvah, they wanted to do it in the safest way possible with zero chance of danger when possible. When we already have a mitzvah, there are rules when it is considered pikuach nefashos and when it is not.

Agav, this entire conversation is going to be mute any day now. Many Rabonim are seeing the light. Stay tuned...

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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #193 on: May 04, 2020, 06:00:37 PM »
I see it worked. You are scared.

First of all, the entire social distancing thing is not proven to help at all. Many experts believe it actually harms the situation.

Second of all, in NYS all deaths are considered Covid deaths now, even without being tested for Covid. They do this in order to keep the numbers high. In addition, if during flue season they would run around testing people to see if they are asymptomatic to the flue, we would have an even higher number of flue patients and even deaths.

Our numbers are down now. When Cuomo says we have 290 deaths, he means that's how many people died that day in NYS. He does not tell us how many people die on a regular fie before this plague or during the flue season.. There are also many deaths in nursing homes daily. Those deaths are greatly due to Cuomo's executive order sending elderly Covid patients to the homes instead of the hospital. He sent them to a facility where everyone  there was supsestable to the worst.

At this point, at least 85% of NY was exposed. There is very little danger davening with a minyan or walking withut a mask. It's mainly media and democratic hype.
Okay,so how many deaths are there in NYC compared to a typical April and May?
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Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #194 on: May 04, 2020, 06:14:05 PM »