5 Towns/Rockaway Rabbonim Ban All Minyanim Due To COVID-19 (Split Topic)

[yossig]

So let’s follow this progression.

@sammyp claims 85% of NY has been infected, or at least exposed.
R’ Chaim was only referring to someone who suspects he is infected by calling them a rodef.
Therefore.. he was referring to everyone in NY.

But only cholent fressers call people a rodef.

Ah, I see where I was wrong.

you realize that you’re spinning this.

• According to official anti body testing the infection rate was approx 20% in Brooklyn
• he said ppl who HAVE it, not HAD it

[yossig]

Who makes the best Shul cholent?

Back of topic!

[reed]

What about if you never eat cholent in Shul and only fress at home?

Brain-pretzel probably need to eat the chulent on your porch but daven in your home.

[yelped]

i think he’s referring to a VERY known godel in BP.
I don’t think posting a name here is the right thing.

The same one who said you can't daven at home because maybe there's a sheitel around with Avoida Zara hair?

[Shmobaum]

Who makes the best Shul cholent?

Not even a question. Rebitzin Sekula’s polish cholent!!

[S209]

you realize that you’re spinning this.

• According to official anti body testing the infection rate was approx 20% in Brooklyn
• he said ppl who HAVE it, not HAD it

I’m not spinning anything. I see he deleted it by now, but he originally posted this

At this point, at least 85% of NY was exposed. There is very little danger davening with a minyan or walking withut a mask. It's mainly media and democratic hype.

Also, he admitted to never having stopped, quoting some alleged Gadol that the danger isn’t too great. So he was attending minyan at a time when allegedly 85% of NYers were exposed.. who’s spinning things again?

[NTorch]

Who makes the best Shul cholent?

Doesn't that depend on the percentage of plaster/paint chips in the mix?

[yossig]

The same one who said you can't daven at home because maybe there's a sheitel around with Avoida Zara hair?

not sure who that was but definitely someone else

[yossig]

I’m not spinning anything. I see he deleted it by now, but he originally posted this

Also, he admitted to never having stopped, quoting some alleged Gadol that the danger isn’t too great. So he was attending minyan at a time when allegedly 85% of NYers were exposed.. who’s spinning things again?

you didn’t address my points,
Who cares if HE believes 85% had it, R Chiem never said that whoever goes to Shul is a Rodef!
That’s all!

[S209]

you didn’t address my points,
Who cares if HE believes 85% had it, R Chiem never said that whoever goes to Shul is a Rodef!
That’s all!

We definitely need Chaim here ASAP, but I’ll try one final time..

According to his logic: R Chaim says all minyan goers who were infected are rodfim. All minyan goers were infected. All who refer to minyan goers as rodfim are cholent fressers. Therefore.. I’m not going to write it out. Now do you understand?

Again, I am answering the one who made those assumptions.

[sammyp]

We definitely need Chaim here ASAP, but I’ll try one final time..

According to his logic: R Chaim says all minyan goers who are currently infected are rodfim. All minyan goers are not currently infected. All who refer to minyan goers as rodfim are stupid. Therefore.. I’m not going to write it out. Now do you understand?

Again, I am answering the one who made those assumptions.

FTFY

[S209]

FTFY

Your comments are nasty, attacking, and lack any substance.

[Mootkim]

You didn't read their letters carefully. Nowhere do they write that outside minyanim themselves are dangerous. That would be silly. I spoke to them and also saw what the Rabbi of YIW wrote clearly. It was a gezaira maybe people might go inside or not keep rules.

The shtikel you posted did not have any solid rayos at all. In fact we always find שלוחי מצוה אינם ניזקין and שומר מצוה לא ידע דבר רע when it come to kiyum hamitzvos. To say differently is a big chidush.

Seems to say so pretty clearly:
"Many individuals have been asking Rabbanim to demonstrate leadership by issuing clear guidelines for the establishment of safe outdoor Minyanim. We all understand that Tefilla Bi'Tzibbur is a crucial imperative for Klal Yisroel, especially in a time of crisis, and that davening together could provide us the זכויות and the connection that we so desperately need. People are requesting that Rabbanim, in conjunction with medical professionals, create guidelines for safe and legal Minyanim in our neighborhoods, with all participants wearing masks at safe distances, perhaps on separate properties, with safeguards in place to ensure that there is no significant risk.

We, the undersigned Rabbanim and Roshei Yeshivos, after much thought and careful consideration, feel obligated to communicate- in unequivocal terms- our united decision to reinforce our previous mandate, and bid our community against the creation of any Minyanim, as well as to cease unauthorized Minyanim. This includes porches, front-/backyard, Minyanim--with no exceptions whatsoever. We will continue to reassess and reanalyze this decision on a regular and ongoing basis as new developments unfold.

Pikuach Nefesh is the greatest imperative in the Torah, and overrides almost any other Mitzva. Although on an individual level it may be possible to safeguard against risk, it is impossible to allow the establishment of Minyanim across a community without also accepting the unavoidable violations of safety guidelines and inadvertent health risks that will inevitably result (especially with hundreds davening three times a day, every day). כל המקיים נפש אחת מישראל...כאילו קיים עולם מלא-- סנהדרין לז. Easing the prohibition would be, at the very minimum, a Sa'fek Pi'kuach Nefesh that could endanger participants, and could increase the likelihood of illness and loss of life in our community, chalila vi'chas. And this simply cannot be allowed. At this point in time, this overarching principle is docheh the imperatives of Tefilla B'tzibbur, Aveilim reciting Kaddish, and many other Halachos. We call upon each and every member of our community to adhere to the safeguards that are essential for the protection of us all. Let us do our absolute utmost in following the Torah's mandate of ונשמרתם מאד לנפשותיכם."

[Mootkim]

The shtikel you posted did not have any solid rayos at all. In fact we always find שלוחי מצוה אינם ניזקין and שומר מצוה לא ידע דבר רע when it come to kiyum hamitzvos. To say differently is a big chidush.

The rav from Toronto obviously disagreed with you.
You are entitled to your opinion but I would assume the rabbanim took shluchei mitzva and shomer mitzva into account and thought otherwise.
Just my own thoughts on that though, I don't know if those apply when you go into a makom sakana. I don't think someone can just say that they will do whatever they want and they wont be harmed because they are doing a mitzva.
If anything we see that "hakol bidei shamayim chutz meitzinim pachim" which basically means that a person is in charge of preventing himself from getting a cold or a "hot". I would venture to say that Corona would also be included in a "hot".

[Mootkim]

Again, the crux of your argument is that it is not dangerous anymore which as of the time that they wrote the letter they felt that it still was. If they indeed open up shuls this Shabbos (which is the common desire of everyone arguing on the thread be it for davening or for cholent  ) it will be because they now feel that it is not dangerous enough to warrant these restrictions. NOT because they "saw the light" or realized their mistake.

[S209]

Again, the crux of your argument is that it is not dangerous anymore which as of the time that they wrote the letter they felt that it still was. If they indeed open up shuls this Shabbos (which is the common desire of everyone arguing on the thread be it for davening or for cholent  ) it will be because they now feel that it is not dangerous enough to warrant these restrictions. NOT because they "saw the light" or realized their mistake.

This is another concept that some people seem to have a hard time grasping. Allowing minyan at a future doesn’t mean you were right, it means things changed. “Progress” indeed.

[ushdadude]

Psychologically, the message needs to be changed. If you keep saying everything is status quo and we don't know when it will be different, people just stop listening.

[S209]

Psychologically, the message needs to be changed. If you keep saying everything is status quo and we don't know when it will be different, people just stop listening.

Is that how Halacha works?

[Sam Finkelstein]

Is that how Halacha works?

Many who became observant later on have such struggles. Habits are hard to give up.

[AsherO]

Many who became observant later on have such struggles. Habits are hard to give up.

Before I became Frum I used to go to Shul to Daven. Now I only go for the cholent, but I Daven some too, because habits are hard to give up.