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« Last edited by Iz on May 05, 2020, 11:24:47 AM »

Author Topic: 5 Towns/Rockaway Rabbonim Ban All Minyanim Due To COVID-19 (Split Topic)  (Read 32696 times)

Offline CountValentine

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Some on there claim to have never signed. Some on there signed because they had to, but privately told people they can daven by safe legal minyanim.
Now there is someone I would have complete confidence in.
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Offline aygart

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I am not playing anything. I am nice to both sides. As long as they are acting nice to each other.
Ah so you consider what you wrote here nice? Because the letter quoted was MUCH nicer that 80% of your posts.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline aygart

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Some on there claim to have never signed. Some on there signed because they had to, but privately told people they can daven by safe legal minyanim.
Why did they "have to"?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline yitzgar

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Some on there claim to have never signed. Some on there signed because they had to, but privately told people they can daven by safe legal minyanim.
These are names I am looking for...

Offline Mootkim

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Bottom line is, what did the majority of the rabbanim in the community hold? If the majority held that it is forbidden to  make any sort of outdoor minyan, then that is what all the other rabbanim need to agree with because of Achrei rabim lehatos. That is probably what that letter was referring to. Rabbonim who were disregarding the Rov (majority) and telling their congregants (or random people that heard about their lenient view and asked him) to daven with a minyan.

Offline ushdadude

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BS"D
13 I'yar 5780 / May 7, 2020
[/size]Lichvod the Wonderful Members of our Community שיחיו,

We sincerely hope that this letter finds you and your families healthy and safe, and managing well under the current challenging circumstances.

On Rosh Chodesh I'yar, we disseminated a letter addressing the numerous calls and requests that had been presented to all our community Rabbanim regarding the possibility of issuing clear guidelines, in conjunction with medical professionals, for the establishment of safe and legal outdoor Minyanim, with safeguards in place to ensure that there is no significant risk.
 
At that time, after much careful consideration, 57 community Rabbanim and Roshei Yeshiva communicated a united and painful decision to bid the entire community against the creation of any outdoor Minyanim, with no exceptions whatsoever. The decision was based on the fact that, in a pandemic, the overarching Mitzva of Pi'kuach Nefashos mandates preventing any risk or danger that could increase the likelihood of illness and loss of life in our community r"l. We wrote in that letter that we would continue to reassess and reanalyze this decision on a regular and ongoing basis, in consultation with medical professionals, as new developments unfold.

At the current point in time, B"H our community has now maintained a consistently low incidence of new cases for an entire 14-day incubation period. This fact, according to many infectious disease specialists, indicates that the decreased prevalence of disease is real and sustainable for at least the short term. Additionally, due to our community’s adherence to the lockdown, virus infectivity rates have gradually decreased, and the reproductive rate of the virus is now estimated at a level wherein, if we maintain current protocols of social distancing, the level of infection will continue its downward trend, B’ezras Hashem.

Based on these facts, after assessing the level of overall risk in our specific community, many doctors now advise that outdoor Minyanim under specific circumstances, within strict social distancing protocol (and adhering to NY State legal guidelines), could be safely conducted, and would not present any additional risk to the participants or the community. This information is relevant only for our community at the present time, and is not to be applied to any other community. 

Nevertheless, as the pandemic continues, and thousands in our community remain susceptible to contracting the virus, the paramount imperative of Pikuach Nefesh and our mandate to exercise utmost vigilance against risk remains critically important. As previously stated, when in circumstances of concern of potential sakanah, we are not obligated in Tefilla B'Tizbbur. Still, based on the above medical counsel, some Rabbanim will be providing clear guidelines for those individuals in their respective Kehillos who wish to daven with a safe and legal Minyan. Each Rav will endeavor to lead his individual Kehilla, based on demographics, location/block layout, and other factors.

We must all do our utmost to work together with mutual respect, achdus and a'havas Yisroel, and avoid any machlokes-- especially in an eis tzara. Our achdus will be marbeh Kevod Shamayim, and will surely provide a great shemira to our entire community.

Those Rabbanim who decide to allow Minyanim, will only permit within the following guidelines, to ensure compliance with New York State law and strict adherence to protocols of social distancing.

1)    Each family must remain solely on their own property, and at least 6ft. away from any neighbor. We cannot currently allow Minyanim to form in a single yard, parking lot, or street, even when wearing masks and practicing social distancing [pursuant to the Governor’s Executive Order {202.18} prohibiting non-essential gatherings of ten people in one place - whether in a public or private location- and we must avoid anything of questionable legality (though we naturally deem Minyanim most essential in our lives)]. The only way a Minyan could currently be allowed is for each family to remain on their own property (e.g. porch, front, or back yard), and join with others in their immediate vicinity- where participants can see each other without leaving their individual properties. When safe and appropriate, a few individuals may stand in the adjacent street to complete a Minyan-- while practicing social distancing. [The Rabbanim will provide Halachik guidelines for requirements for "tzi'ruf" for such Minyanim, as well as various details of Hilchos Tefilla in these circumstances.]

According to these guidelines, many will be unable to join in a Minyan, as the location of their homes would preclude forming and joining a Minyan without leaving their property. Nevertheless, the above guidelines present the only safe and legal way that Minyanim can currently be allowed. 

2)     Only OUTDOOR Minyanim are permitted. Under no circumstances may a Minyan be held indoors, even in the event of rain, and even for a Yahrzeit or other chiyuv. People may not gather on a single property or even on the street to schmooze before or after davening. One may certainly not make a 'Tikkun' or Kiddush, even for a Yahrzeit.

3)     Although the wearing of masks is not required by law in such a setting, we nevertheless strongly encourage that masks be worn at all times when outdoors. As always, donning a mask does not allow any laxity in social distancing.

4)  Individuals with underlying health issues, the immuno-compromised, the elderly, or anyone exhibiting COVID-like symptoms, may not participate in a Minyan. Children under Bar Mitzvah should not join.
     
5) K'rias HaTorah is only permitted if all a'liyos, leining, hagbah and gelilah are done exclusively by one family on their property. No one may bring siddurim, chumashim, chairs, or similar from one property to another.

6)     Each Minyan should have a designated individual who is responsible to ensure that all guidelines are strictly adhered to. The individual should report regularly to his respective Rav.

We will, of course, continue to reassess and reanalyze this decision on an ongoing basis, in consultation with medical professionals, as new developments unfold. If there is, chas vi'shalom, any evidence of resurgence of new cases or a "second wave," we will act quickly to take any and all necessary measures to ensure the safety of our community.

Our responsibility to be proactive and vigilant against any possibility of health risk and sakanah extends to far more than just Minyanim. We must all continue to exercise zehirus and to take precautions to avoid any health risk, and fully observe social distancing protocols in any and all of our interactions. We continue to daven daily that this mageifa comes to an end soon, and we should be able to return to our Shuls and Yeshivos. May we be zocheh to see refu'os v'yeshuos bi'karov, and share only besuros tovos henceforth IY"H.
[/color]
Trolls will always post stupid replies

Offline Mootkim

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Who is that from?

Offline Lurker

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  • Location: As always, silence is NOT an admission of agreement on DDF. It just means that people lack the stamina to keep on arguing with made up "facts", illogical arguments, deceiving statements, nasty and degrading comments, and fuzzy math. - @yelped
Can we stop posting letters without the signatures? What are they worth if you don't know who it's from?
Temporarily back to Lurker status.

Offline aygart

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No specific signees. Was a guidance from all the rabbanim.
All?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline ushdadude

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Who is that from?


Heichel dovid.
All?


It's shul specific. If a shul sends it out you can assume their Rav signed
Trolls will always post stupid replies

Offline aygart

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It's shul specific. If a shul sends it out you can assume their Rav signed
Agreed. I was questioning his implication that this is a consensus.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline momo

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This is the guide for the Rabbis that are allowing minyanim. The unified front, is no longer. Obviously any “Young israel, ou “type shul is still saying no minyan. Most “Aguda” type shuls, are sending out these guidelines.

Offline Yef

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BS"D
13 I'yar 5780 / May 7, 2020
[/size]Lichvod the Wonderful Members of our Community שיחיו,

We sincerely hope that this letter finds you and your families healthy and safe, and managing well under the current challenging circumstances.

On Rosh Chodesh I'yar, we disseminated a letter addressing the numerous calls and requests that had been presented to all our community Rabbanim regarding the possibility of issuing clear guidelines, in conjunction with medical professionals, for the establishment of safe and legal outdoor Minyanim, with safeguards in place to ensure that there is no significant risk.
 
At that time, after much careful consideration, 57 community Rabbanim and Roshei Yeshiva communicated a united and painful decision to bid the entire community against the creation of any outdoor Minyanim, with no exceptions whatsoever. The decision was based on the fact that, in a pandemic, the overarching Mitzva of Pi'kuach Nefashos mandates preventing any risk or danger that could increase the likelihood of illness and loss of life in our community r"l. We wrote in that letter that we would continue to reassess and reanalyze this decision on a regular and ongoing basis, in consultation with medical professionals, as new developments unfold.

At the current point in time, B"H our community has now maintained a consistently low incidence of new cases for an entire 14-day incubation period. This fact, according to many infectious disease specialists, indicates that the decreased prevalence of disease is real and sustainable for at least the short term. Additionally, due to our community’s adherence to the lockdown, virus infectivity rates have gradually decreased, and the reproductive rate of the virus is now estimated at a level wherein, if we maintain current protocols of social distancing, the level of infection will continue its downward trend, B’ezras Hashem.

Based on these facts, after assessing the level of overall risk in our specific community, many doctors now advise that outdoor Minyanim under specific circumstances, within strict social distancing protocol (and adhering to NY State legal guidelines), could be safely conducted, and would not present any additional risk to the participants or the community. This information is relevant only for our community at the present time, and is not to be applied to any other community. 

Nevertheless, as the pandemic continues, and thousands in our community remain susceptible to contracting the virus, the paramount imperative of Pikuach Nefesh and our mandate to exercise utmost vigilance against risk remains critically important. As previously stated, when in circumstances of concern of potential sakanah, we are not obligated in Tefilla B'Tizbbur. Still, based on the above medical counsel, some Rabbanim will be providing clear guidelines for those individuals in their respective Kehillos who wish to daven with a safe and legal Minyan. Each Rav will endeavor to lead his individual Kehilla, based on demographics, location/block layout, and other factors.

We must all do our utmost to work together with mutual respect, achdus and a'havas Yisroel, and avoid any machlokes-- especially in an eis tzara. Our achdus will be marbeh Kevod Shamayim, and will surely provide a great shemira to our entire community.

Those Rabbanim who decide to allow Minyanim, will only permit within the following guidelines, to ensure compliance with New York State law and strict adherence to protocols of social distancing.

1)    Each family must remain solely on their own property, and at least 6ft. away from any neighbor. We cannot currently allow Minyanim to form in a single yard, parking lot, or street, even when wearing masks and practicing social distancing [pursuant to the Governor’s Executive Order {202.18} prohibiting non-essential gatherings of ten people in one place - whether in a public or private location- and we must avoid anything of questionable legality (though we naturally deem Minyanim most essential in our lives)]. The only way a Minyan could currently be allowed is for each family to remain on their own property (e.g. porch, front, or back yard), and join with others in their immediate vicinity- where participants can see each other without leaving their individual properties. When safe and appropriate, a few individuals may stand in the adjacent street to complete a Minyan-- while practicing social distancing. [The Rabbanim will provide Halachik guidelines for requirements for "tzi'ruf" for such Minyanim, as well as various details of Hilchos Tefilla in these circumstances.]

According to these guidelines, many will be unable to join in a Minyan, as the location of their homes would preclude forming and joining a Minyan without leaving their property. Nevertheless, the above guidelines present the only safe and legal way that Minyanim can currently be allowed. 

2)     Only OUTDOOR Minyanim are permitted. Under no circumstances may a Minyan be held indoors, even in the event of rain, and even for a Yahrzeit or other chiyuv. People may not gather on a single property or even on the street to schmooze before or after davening. One may certainly not make a 'Tikkun' or Kiddush, even for a Yahrzeit.

3)     Although the wearing of masks is not required by law in such a setting, we nevertheless strongly encourage that masks be worn at all times when outdoors. As always, donning a mask does not allow any laxity in social distancing.

4)  Individuals with underlying health issues, the immuno-compromised, the elderly, or anyone exhibiting COVID-like symptoms, may not participate in a Minyan. Children under Bar Mitzvah should not join.
     
5) K'rias HaTorah is only permitted if all a'liyos, leining, hagbah and gelilah are done exclusively by one family on their property. No one may bring siddurim, chumashim, chairs, or similar from one property to another.

6)     Each Minyan should have a designated individual who is responsible to ensure that all guidelines are strictly adhered to. The individual should report regularly to his respective Rav.

We will, of course, continue to reassess and reanalyze this decision on an ongoing basis, in consultation with medical professionals, as new developments unfold. If there is, chas vi'shalom, any evidence of resurgence of new cases or a "second wave," we will act quickly to take any and all necessary measures to ensure the safety of our community.

Our responsibility to be proactive and vigilant against any possibility of health risk and sakanah extends to far more than just Minyanim. We must all continue to exercise zehirus and to take precautions to avoid any health risk, and fully observe social distancing protocols in any and all of our interactions. We continue to daven daily that this mageifa comes to an end soon, and we should be able to return to our Shuls and Yeshivos. May we be zocheh to see refu'os v'yeshuos bi'karov, and share only besuros tovos henceforth IY"H.
[/color]
Really need to know who authored this. Please let us know

Offline ushdadude

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Heichel dovid.

It's shul specific. If a shul sends it out you can assume their Rav signed
Rabbi Feitman of "red shul" sent it out too
Trolls will always post stupid replies

Offline sammyp

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Bottom line is, what did the majority of the rabbanim in the community hold? If the majority held that it is forbidden to  make any sort of outdoor minyan, then that is what all the other rabbanim need to agree with because of Achrei rabim lehatos. That is probably what that letter was referring to. Rabbonim who were disregarding the Rov (majority) and telling their congregants (or random people that heard about their lenient view and asked him) to daven with a minyan.

That is total am haratzos my friend. That is not how Halacha works. And if it would work that way, then YIW is going to have to allow minyonim, because most shuls sent out, or will send out that email. But it doesn't work that way.

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That is total am haratzos my friend. That is not how Halacha works. And if it would work that way, then YIW is going to have to allow minyonim, because most shuls sent out, or will send out that email. But it doesn't work that way.
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@Mootkim bottom line is that there was a vote, and a majority of rabbonim paskened, that outdoor minyanim be allowed. Unlike the previous votes, where everyone went the way of the majority, in this vote, that isn’t happening. Be that as it may, everyone should follow the guidelines, of the Rabbonim that they ask their shaalos of.

Offline Mootkim

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@Mootkim bottom line is that there was a vote, and a majority of rabbonim paskened, that outdoor minyanim be allowed. Unlike the previous votes, where everyone went the way of the majority, in this vote, that isn’t happening. Be that as it may, everyone should follow the guidelines, of the Rabbonim that they ask their shaalos of.
Right but the vote was to either make a lo plug across the board or to allow the individual rabbanim to give guidance to their shul. The majority ruled like the second option. And @sammyp the vote specifically said that if majority ruled a lo plug that that would be the accepted ruling even amongst those that voted to allow rabbonim to allow their congregants to make minyan.

Offline reed

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@Mootkim bottom line is that there was a vote, and a majority of rabbonim paskened, that outdoor minyanim be allowed. Unlike the previous votes, where everyone went the way of the majority, in this vote, that isn’t happening. Be that as it may, everyone should follow the guidelines, of the Rabbonim that they ask their shaalos of.

Or the Rabbanim they feel like have a better understanding of the gravity of the situation. Some of us may have felt the need to switch Rabbanim to our shailahs to based on questionable action that their usual rabbis took over the past couple of months. 

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Some on there claim to have never signed. Some on there signed because they had to, but privately told people they can daven by safe legal minyanim.
this is not a valid response. whoever says (i) they never signed privately (but doesnt clarify publicly/doesnt let you tell us who he is) or (ii) they were forced is either a total nobody/loser who can't stand for himself and clarify his opinions, or a liar. either way his psak/opinion isnt worth much.