5 Towns/Rockaway Rabbonim Ban All Minyanim Due To COVID-19 (Split Topic)

[sammyp]

I'm more curious about the medical professionals supposedly behind the allow outside minyan cohort than the rabbonim. I haven't seen any names on that side of things.

If you don't trust your Rabonim, your in big trouble. Now the true colors of the antis are coming out .

[reed]

You realize you are an apikores!? You don't need a minyan because you can't count as one of the ten anyways.

@Yard sale So you were just branded as an apikures on an anonymous internet forum. I’m sure you didn’t realize you were one till now but now that it has been determined that you are - can you please let us know how this will change your life moving forward?

[Yard sale]

@Yard sale So you were just branded as an apikures on an anonymous internet forum. I’m sure you didn’t realize you were one till now but now that it has been determined that you are - can you please let us know how this will change your life moving forward?

Not sure. I’ll ask my Rav.

[skyguy918]

If you don't trust your Rabonim, your in big trouble. Now the true colors of the antis are coming out .

First of all, those are not my rabbonim. And second of all, I never said I don't trust them, I said I'm curious who the medically backing is.

[sammyp]

I would like to make some points in response to the letter of Rabbi Billet.
This should not be taken in any way as being disrespectful, but as an Infectious Disease
physician who has been involved in the care of hundreds of patients with Covid 19, I
would like to share my perspective.
1. I suppose that Rabbi Billet is relying on medical authorities for some of his
statements. I am concerned that he may not have the true picture of the situation. He
states, "things have gotten slightly better." From my vantage point, things have gotten
dramatically better. The difference between now and two months ago is night and day.
Two months ago, new infections raged through the frum Jewish community like a tidal
wave. Today, I do not hear about any new cases in any of our frum communities
although, I admit I cannot be sure that there are not a few. I have spoken to Hatzalah
members who say that the calls have gone back to "preCovid" numbers. Even outside
communities which had their "tidal wave," a month ago or more, now have very few
cases. I work at Einstein. The emergency room is nearly empty. Six weeks ago it was
flooded with Covid 19 patients. I have spoken to physicians in other hospitals who share
this experience. I know it may be true that there are areas that are experiencing their
"tidal wave" now, but so far none of these have had any impact on the frum community.
 Some have quoted the death figures to show how things are still bad. However,
generally the deaths that are occurring currently are in patients who have been sick for
weeks. This does not reflect on the current disease activity.
2. Rabbi Billet concedes that "there is no question that there are ways that safe services
can take place." He then says that "once we loosen our current standards, chaos will
ensue."... Many unsupervised social gatherings will transpire."
If 95% of the community complies and 5% don't, I do not think that the 95% should be
deprived of participating in safe services, that Rabbi Billet concedes are possible. For
the 5% who take risks, that is their issue and the entire community should not be
deprived. I do not think that community leaders should feel responsibility for those who
defy the regulations and take their own risk.
3. "There is always the possibility that the worst has passed and with the arrival of warm
weather, the virus will disappear forever." . We do not have to look into the future for
any reason to be optimistic. Right now, the situation is dramatically better than it was
two months ago. We do not have to count on the virus disappearing forever to have
safe services now. With regard for the possibility that there will be a resurgence, there
may not be. Based on that argument, even if things are as they are now, we should wait
for at least a year to see if there is a resurgence. If there is, we would have to deal with
the new situation. I do not think that having safe services will cause a new resurgence.
4. With regard to those having been sick feeling a sense of immunity, I am one of those,
and although it is not certain, most, infectious Disease specialists I have spoken to feel
that it is likely that someone who had the disease this season will not likely get it again
this season.


In summary, I understand everyone's concern. Obviously, safe services can only start
when the government allows it. This can only happen when the government is also
allowing people to go back to work. Workplaces will have their guidelines to assure
safety. I am sure that our community members will go to work. Synagogues will also
have their guidelines to assure safety. Our community members should be able to go to
the synagogues, just as they go to their work.
Daniel Berman.

Best post so far. Unfortunately people don't want to know the truth. They like it when there horror scare and tragedy.

BTW, I actually davened by a minyan hosted by a Rov who supposedly signed (but really didn't). It was completely safe with social distancing. No two people were ever allowed by Torah. Even relatives living in same home had to social distance from each other so it wouldn't look bad. It was completely safe and legal and done with Daas Torah. It can be done.

[joeb1]

I would like to make some points in response to the letter of Rabbi Billet.
This should not be taken in any way as being disrespectful, but as an Infectious Disease
physician who has been involved in the care of hundreds of patients with Covid 19, I
would like to share my perspective.
1. I suppose that Rabbi Billet is relying on medical authorities for some of his
statements. I am concerned that he may not have the true picture of the situation. He
states, "things have gotten slightly better." From my vantage point, things have gotten
dramatically better. The difference between now and two months ago is night and day.
Two months ago, new infections raged through the frum Jewish community like a tidal
wave. Today, I do not hear about any new cases in any of our frum communities
although, I admit I cannot be sure that there are not a few. I have spoken to Hatzalah
members who say that the calls have gone back to "preCovid" numbers. Even outside
communities which had their "tidal wave," a month ago or more, now have very few
cases. I work at Einstein. The emergency room is nearly empty. Six weeks ago it was
flooded with Covid 19 patients. I have spoken to physicians in other hospitals who share
this experience. I know it may be true that there are areas that are experiencing their
"tidal wave" now, but so far none of these have had any impact on the frum community.
 Some have quoted the death figures to show how things are still bad. However,
generally the deaths that are occurring currently are in patients who have been sick for
weeks. This does not reflect on the current disease activity.
2. Rabbi Billet concedes that "there is no question that there are ways that safe services
can take place." He then says that "once we loosen our current standards, chaos will
ensue."... Many unsupervised social gatherings will transpire."
If 95% of the community complies and 5% don't, I do not think that the 95% should be
deprived of participating in safe services, that Rabbi Billet concedes are possible. For
the 5% who take risks, that is their issue and the entire community should not be
deprived. I do not think that community leaders should feel responsibility for those who
defy the regulations and take their own risk.
3. "There is always the possibility that the worst has passed and with the arrival of warm
weather, the virus will disappear forever." . We do not have to look into the future for
any reason to be optimistic. Right now, the situation is dramatically better than it was
two months ago. We do not have to count on the virus disappearing forever to have
safe services now. With regard for the possibility that there will be a resurgence, there
may not be. Based on that argument, even if things are as they are now, we should wait
for at least a year to see if there is a resurgence. If there is, we would have to deal with
the new situation. I do not think that having safe services will cause a new resurgence.
4. With regard to those having been sick feeling a sense of immunity, I am one of those,
and although it is not certain, most, infectious Disease specialists I have spoken to feel
that it is likely that someone who had the disease this season will not likely get it again
this season.


In summary, I understand everyone's concern. Obviously, safe services can only start
when the government allows it. This can only happen when the government is also
allowing people to go back to work. Workplaces will have their guidelines to assure
safety. I am sure that our community members will go to work. Synagogues will also
have their guidelines to assure safety. Our community members should be able to go to
the synagogues, just as they go to their work.
Daniel Berman.

Where was this written/posted

[reed]

Per Rabbi/Dr. Glatt just now there still cannot be any outdoor minyanim. Also I paraphrase on this part but he said “not every person with an MD after his name is an expert in this field”.

[reed]

Best post so far. Unfortunately people don't want to know the truth. They like it when there horror scare and tragedy.

BTW, I actually davened by a minyan hosted by a Rov who supposedly signed (but really didn't). It was completely safe with social distancing. No two people were ever allowed by Torah. Even relatives living in same home had to social distance from each other so it wouldn't look bad. It was completely safe and legal and done with Daas Torah. It can be done.

Hashem yeriachem with this. What kind of coward signs but doesn’t really sign?

[joeb1]

Someone whose name was put on there without auth
FYI rabbi dr Glatt is amazing at what he does and is top in field BUT is not the only infectious disease dr. In the world 

[JMHO]

Someone whose name was put on there without auth

Who? Why wouldn't he put out out a letter calling this out?

[sammyp]

Who? Why wouldn't he put out out a letter calling this out?

There were more than one.b One Rov said he verified with other colleagues and their names were also put on without authorization.

They don't put out a letter because they are not on a campaign and do not have an agenda. They communicate with their Kehila and their Kehila know what their Rov holds. These Rabonim don't really care what everyone else says or thinks about them.

[aygart]

You realize you are an apikores!? You don't need a minyan because you can't count as one of the ten anyways.

I am not playing anything. I am nice to both sides. As long as they are acting nice to each other.

Mhm

[JMHO]

There were more than one.b One Rov said he verified with other colleagues and their names were also put on without authorization.

They don't put out a letter because they are not on a campaign and do not have an agenda. They communicate with their Kehila and their Kehila know what their Rov holds. These Rabonim don't really care what everyone else says or thinks about them.

If it was truly unauthorized they would make this information public. The fact that they are not means its not true or they are really ok with it.

[sammyp]

Per Rabbi/Dr. Glatt just now there still cannot be any outdoor minyanim. Also I paraphrase on this part but he said “not every person with an MD after his name is an expert in this field”.

Wow!! So to sum it all up: Rabbi/Dr. Glatt is the only real MD and Rabbi Billet is the only Rov. Anybody who disagrees with them is a fake and a fraud. It is simply hubris  to even think they can disagree with them.

But we had another post from another infectious disease doctor who argued almost every point these two have made. In that post, even if you would argue on his medical points, he writes that the facts are being misrepresented to us. I don't know that doctor personally, but he has a good bio: Dr. Daniel Berman, MD is an infectious disease specialist in Bronx, NY and has been practicing for 33 years. He graduated from New York U, School of Medicine in 1982 and specializes in infectious disease medicine.

As I have been saying all along, there are many doctors who disagree with our Rabbi/Dr.. It's a cheap blow to say that anybody who dares to disagree with them are discredited.

[sammyp]

If it was truly unauthorized they would make this information public. The fact that they are not means its not true or they are really ok with it.

They let all their mispalilim and all those who ask them shailos know.

Unlike one Rabbi in town, most Rabonim realize they only pasken for their own kehila. They never make city wide public statements. There is no point. Do you think every Rov in town approves of everything that happens in YIW?!? Would they make city wide statements about it?!? No way! But those who ask them shailos know their position. They are not concerned what people in other neighborhoods think about them. It has no affect on them or their kehila.

[skyguy918]

Kind of vague on the practical ramifications. He doesn't say to go ahead and allow outdoor minyanim right now. Is this actually the guy Rabbi Stern, Rabbi Feitman and whoever else sent out that message are relying on?

[JMHO]

They let all their mispalilim and all those who ask them shailos know.

Unlike one Rabbi in town, most Rabonim realize they only pasken for their own kehila. They never make city wide public statements. There is no point. Do you think every Rov in town approves of everything that happens in YIW?!? Would they make city wide statements about it?!? No way! But those who ask them shailos know their position. They are not concerned what people in other neighborhoods think about them. It has no affect on them or their kehila.

I'm sure if they disagreed with the content of the letter they would protest a forged signature.

[ushdadude]

Per Rabbi/Dr. Glatt just now there still cannot be any outdoor minyanim. Also I paraphrase on this part but he said “not every person with an MD after his name is an expert in this field”.

Did he explain why not?

[yelped]

You realize you are an apikores!? You don't need a minyan because you can't count as one of the ten anyways.

Hey, brand me as an Apikoires too, because while I usually have things I disagree with him, he is 100% right with this. You don't have to have that much brains to realize that.

[Lurker]

Hey, brand me as an Apikoires too, because while I usually have things I disagree with him, he is 100% right with this. You don't have to have that much brains to realize that.

Y'all can not make a minyan together with all the other people who wouldn't count anyway