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The substantial substance of your sustained subsistent substance has subdued me into subversion.

« Last edited by Iz on May 05, 2020, 11:24:47 AM »

Author Topic: 5 Towns/Rockaway Rabbonim Ban All Minyanim Due To COVID-19 (Split Topic)  (Read 86783 times)

Offline ushdadude

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This thread is nominated for "the most lopsided argument on DDF thread".


I actually think both sides made valid points and some stupid points. Both sides took on a really condescending tone though.

Offline JMHO

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I actually think one side made valid points and one side made stupid points. One side took on a really condescending tone though.

Offline yitzgar

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I actually think one side made valid points and one side made stupid points. One side took on a really condescending tone though.
Lol

Offline joeb1

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@reed

Many Kol korahs that come out have names signed that never agreed to it
You are making it sound like it’s a new thing

These rabbis don’t need to make public statements about this garbage
They deal with their Shul and communicate with them directly

You feel they need to come out and make a big deal
They disagree

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I actually think both sides made valid points and some stupid points. Both sides took on a really condescending tone though.
Want to fact check yourself by reading this thread again?  :)

Offline ushdadude

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Want to fact check yourself by reading this thread again?  :)
Heck no

Offline reed

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@reed

Many Kol korahs that come out have names signed that never agreed to it
You are making it sound like it’s a new thing

These rabbis don’t need to make public statements about this garbage
They deal with their Shul and communicate with them directly

You feel they need to come out and make a big deal
They disagree

Garbage? An unprecedented letter signed by 57 Rabbis Of all types that BAN all minyanim (just think about that) and you’re telling me the Rabbi who disagrees with this letter but yet somehow signed shouldn’t come out and say “hey wait a second I disagree! There should be minyanim!”.

This is not a letter about making BBQs in the nine days it’s a got a little more gravitas.

Offline reed

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I actually think one side made valid points and one side made stupid points. One side took on a really condescending tone though.

Per @sammyp most of us are posul for a minyan anyway so once they do start minyanim should we just all hang together instead? Like backyard chill matzav?

Offline reed

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What we did until now worked and now we can move on.

The OU/RCA and YIW all said there is no real danger with these minyanim and they are instituting lo plug. They can do that in their kehilos if they want to.

Reb Yid - the below is a post of yours from not too long ago. I think it’s important to repost so people understand what they dealing with here.

“However, I am from those people whom believe Hashem still wants us to daven and learn. I am a follower of Reb Chaim Kanievvsky who recommends keeping all Batei Medrash open. He wouldn't budge even when the government and health officials came ti his house to home and tried to get him to change his mind.

In Brooklyn, when they have an confirmed case, they close the shul to disinfect, then reopen. Far Rockaway closed all shuls as a result of some people showing symptoms. So far, the tests are coming back negative, and the shuls are still closed.

When all the stores switch to delivery only, then I will start to daven at home.

This entire Chrono thing is majorly hyped up and exaggerated by the media. It's true it is real, but not the way they make it out to be. We're all gonna get it anyways at some point. Most of us wont even know we have it though.”

Offline sammyp

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Reb Yid - the below is a post of yours from not too long ago. I think it’s important to repost so people understand what they dealing with here.


That comment was not from "not too long ago". It might be too much to ask for, but it would be nice to be honest.

That comment was from the early stages before the Federal and State governments introduced the Stay At Home and quarantine laws.

It happens to be that even though at the time we did not have much information about this virus, what I said back then came out to be mostly true. Most of us have gotten the virus since then, whether we quarantined or not.  Most of us were only mildly sick and some of us didn't even know we had it until we tested for antibodies. (If you din't test yet, go get tested.)

It is also true that many who did quarantine got sick anyways and it didn't help them. The Governor himself said most cases now are from those who were completely isolated, and they got it anyways.

According to many Doctors and professionals it is still not clear that this Stay at Home initiative helped much at all. And we still don't know the negative long term effects this quarantine will have on society, including on our health.  Many infectious disease doctors and professionals are worried that our bodies might have lost the natural antibodies which are constantly built up every day when we come into contact with the thousands of germs which float around and we come into contact with when we live our normal lives. With all this quarantine and sanitizing there is a real concern that whenever we get out, a lot of people will get sick due to their improvised  immune systems . Only time will tell.

Offline AsherO

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According to many Doctors and professionals it is still not clear that this Stay at Home initiative helped much at all. And we still don't know the negative long term effects this quarantine will have on society, including on our health.  Many infectious disease doctors and professionals are worried that our bodies might have lost the natural antibodies which are constantly built up every day when we come into contact with the thousands of germs which float around and we come into contact with when we live our normal lives. With all this quarantine and sanitizing there is a real concern that whenever we get out, a lot of people will get sick due to their improvised  immune systems . Only time will tell.

[citation missing]
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Offline sammyp

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[citation missing]

As I have been saying, in order to take a side, you need to hear both sides. If you need a citation, you obviously have it been listening to one side. I have heard both sides extensively prove their cases.

If yiu missed the other side, Gogle is your friend .

Why do people always pull out one line and comment, and ignore the strong arguments without rebuttal?!?

Offline JMHO

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According to many Doctors and professionals it is still not clear that this Stay at Home initiative helped much at all.

Are you serious?!

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As I have been saying, in order to take a side, you need to hear both sides. If you need a citation, you obviously have it been listening to one side. I have heard both sides extensively prove their cases.

If yiu missed the other side, Gogle is your friend .

Why do people always pull out one line and comment, and ignore the strong arguments without rebuttal?!?
As always, silence is NOT an admission of agreement on DDF. It just means that people lack the stamina to keep on arguing with made up "facts", illogical arguments, deceiving statements, nasty and degrading comments, and fuzzy math.

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Are you serious?!
Super serious. After all, he just wrote last night that it helped.  ::)

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As I have been saying, in order to take a side, you need to hear both sides. If you need a citation, you obviously have it been listening to one side. I have heard both sides extensively prove their cases.

If yiu missed the other side, Gogle is your friend .

Why do people always pull out one line and comment, and ignore the strong arguments without rebuttal?!?
When have you ever brought sources for these stiff. That you say them over and over is not a source.

That IS a rebuttal. They are saying that it is based on something false. YOU are not rebutting that argument.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline AsherO

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[citation missing]

As I have been saying, in order to take a side, you need to hear both sides. If you need a citation, you obviously have it been listening to one side. I have heard both sides extensively prove their cases.

If yiu missed the other side, Gogle is your friend .

Why do people always pull out one line and comment, and ignore the strong arguments without rebuttal?!?

I’m trying to listen to both sides. You’re representing one side here, and you’re not offering proof for your assertions. The “other side” offered a fair amount of linked/quoted/referenced sources.

You referred to many infectious disease doctors and professionals having a position, back that statement up with a source, a list of sources, or at least a list of some of these professionals, or I will be skeptical.
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I’m trying to listen to both sides. You’re representing one side here, and you’re not offering proof for your assertions. The “other side” offered a fair amount of linked/quoted/referenced sources.

You referred to many infectious disease doctors and professionals having a position, back that statement up with a source, a list of sources, or at least a list of some of these professionals, or I will be skeptical.
And unnamed Rabbanim who had a gun held to their heads.

Offline reed

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That comment was not from "not too long ago". It might be too much to ask for, but it would be nice to be honest.

That comment was from the early stages before the Federal and State governments introduced the Stay At Home and quarantine laws.

It happens to be that even though at the time we did not have much information about this virus, what I said back then came out to be mostly true. Most of us have gotten the virus since then, whether we quarantined or not.  Most of us were only mildly sick and some of us didn't even know we had it until we tested for antibodies. (If you din't test yet, go get tested.)

It is also true that many who did quarantine got sick anyways and it didn't help them. The Governor himself said most cases now are from those who were completely isolated, and they got it anyways.

According to many Doctors and professionals it is still not clear that this Stay at Home initiative helped much at all. And we still don't know the negative long term effects this quarantine will have on society, including on our health.  Many infectious disease doctors and professionals are worried that our bodies might have lost the natural antibodies which are constantly built up every day when we come into contact with the thousands of germs which float around and we come into contact with when we live our normal lives. With all this quarantine and sanitizing there is a real concern that whenever we get out, a lot of people will get sick due to their improvised  immune systems . Only time will tell.

It was March 16 - after all the shuls and schools in town closed. The virus was Understood to be dangerous at the time and people in town were testing positive. Yet you said the Shuls should stay open because you are a follower of R Chaim and corona is just “hyped up”. Then you pointed to Brooklyn to show how the shuls are staying open and we should follow them. Seeing the results now in the five towns and Brooklyn I’m very happy that the Rabbanim and the community did the opposite of what you knew to be right.

Offline yaakov35

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It was March 16 - after all the shuls and schools in town closed. The virus was Understood to be dangerous at the time and people in town were testing positive. Yet you said the Shuls should stay open because you are a follower of R Chaim and corona is just “hyped up”. Then you pointed to Brooklyn to show how the shuls are staying open and we should follow them. Seeing the results now in the five towns and Brooklyn I’m very happy that the Rabbanim and the community did the opposite of what you knew to be right.
Are you insinuating that the 5ts didn't get hit as bad as Brooklyn? Because that's simply untrue. 5ts got it worse