Poll

Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach (NEW case)?

Don't know
I know in Tri-State area
I know other location in us
I know out of the US

Author Topic: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?  (Read 70058 times)

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
« Reply #320 on: July 02, 2020, 11:28:27 AM »
Then you can let the Israeli Ministry of Health know that you have a person of unknown infectious status who has yet to infect people with antibodies if thatís what you mean by the all clear.

I honestly don't know what you're trying to say here.

Your inviting Floridians to stay at your house belies your entire underlying attitude about how herd immunity is what will keep the community safe. Whatís your excuse for allowing people from a highly infectious place to stay in the community? Are you positive they donít have COVID? Herd immunity will not protect at least *some* people from contracting COVID if you introduce a new infectious case.

You are making way too many assumptions recently. I honestly think that COVID-19 is having a bad effect on you. Maybe a vacation might help.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline ExGingi

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Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
« Reply #321 on: July 02, 2020, 11:31:45 AM »
The surgical mask is probably one of the easiest to wear. What was the issue?
Other than one old one I had at home (obtained last year for bad allergy days for my son) that actually fit without feeling that my ears are about to be cut off, and seems semi-breathable, all the newer ones (mostly of Chinese origin) are too small/tight and not very breathable.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline ExGingi

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Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
« Reply #322 on: July 02, 2020, 11:35:33 AM »
Or find a new career, or come up with some other solution.

Every time we have these discussions where people say "wear a mask, it's not a big deal" it makes me think there isn't actually any science to back it up (as I've heard there are many infectious disease doctors who believe they don't help), it just makes people feel good because they feel they're "doing something".

Not sure if there's any science about it being "not a big deal" but I think it's pretty obvious that it could protect others, and possibly the wearer too. That being said, I'm not sure how much of an additional benefit they provide once social distancing is kept.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline Kobe Bryant

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Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
« Reply #323 on: July 02, 2020, 11:41:55 AM »
Did I? In any event, the Israeli ministry of health (supposedly relying on the CDC and/or WHO) claim that it is unknown if antibodies provide any immunity.

See: https://www.health.gov.il/Subjects/disease/corona/Documents/bz-259782620.pdf
Then you can let the Israeli Ministry of Health know that you have a person with antibodies ,of unknown infectious status, who has yet to infect people.if thatís what you mean by the all clear.

I honestly don't know what you're trying to say here.
@S209  FTFY?

Offline gozalim

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Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
« Reply #324 on: July 02, 2020, 11:45:05 AM »
once social distancing is kept.
a big assumption in our communities...

I've been called "the only guy in ch still wearing one" (or heckled, as discussed) for wearing in crowded indoor settings

Have you seen 770 lately? A wedding? A grocery store?

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
« Reply #325 on: July 02, 2020, 11:55:48 AM »
a big assumption in our communities...

I've been called "the only guy in ch still wearing one" (or heckled, as discussed) for wearing in crowded indoor settings

Have you seen 770 lately? A wedding? A grocery store?

Are you joking? With my profile picture is it even a question whether I have been to 770 lately?

Not sure if you're trying to refute the claim that it is debatable as to how much additional protection is offered by a mask when social distancing is adhered to.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline S209

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Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
« Reply #326 on: July 02, 2020, 12:09:46 PM »
I honestly don't know what you're trying to say here.

You are making way too many assumptions recently. I honestly think that COVID-19 is having a bad effect on you. Maybe a vacation might help.
You wanted to sound the all clear based on your experience. I am saying you should go ahead and let that lone Israeli minister in on the memo that your antibodies protected you (from a person of unknown infectivity).

What assumptions did I make? I *asked* but did not *assume* whether you are confident the guests do not have COVID. If youíre sure, than clearly you have no proof of antibodies offering protection (which you inferred). If youíre not sure, then it was dangerous and wrong to host people from a virus hotspot and potentially introduce new infectious people into CH (against the clear advice of the *local* medical establishment).
Quote from: YitzyS
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Offline gozalim

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Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
« Reply #327 on: July 02, 2020, 12:10:22 PM »
 My point is that
when social distancing is adhered to.
is an irrelevant hypothetical.

Let's talk about the benefits they bring in the real world situations we live in.

Offline S209

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Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
« Reply #328 on: July 02, 2020, 12:15:42 PM »
You're not following the conversation, he said "anyone who's being intelectually honest..." to which I said speak for yourself. His response was "I'm speaking for myself".

As far as your claim that it's a tiny step, I can scream until I'm blue in the face but you don't seem to care (and then claim you're the only one being intellectually honest) so I won't continue. I've heard the same from many other people. I sure am happy I don't work in a field that requires all day mask wearing, because I'm not sure what I would do.

I see you believe government overreach is impossible, because any time there is government overreach people are only upset because they're selfish.
Iím not denying you think masks are an imposition, Iím saying you didnít try hard enough. I donít believe youíre being intellectually honest. For some reason people who have been more serious about COVID have had no issues with masks (once they got used to it) but people who have been in denial all along canít breathe. See the pattern?

Do you honestly think that all doctors and nurses prepared to go into that field by making sure theyíre ok with wearing masks? Or do you think doctors and nurses have changed careers because they have to wear masks now? Come now, thatís the definition of intellectually dishonest. Ask a doctor just how hard they find it once theyíre used to it.

Everyone who works in a hospital wears a mask all day. Theyíre all doing just fine and donít need to take it off every few minutes to breathe. Donít forget many of them are wearing far more restrictive masks than you are.
Quote from: YitzyS
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Offline avromie7

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Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
« Reply #329 on: July 02, 2020, 12:17:43 PM »
Iím not denying you think masks are an imposition, Iím saying you didnít try hard enough. I donít believe youíre being intellectually honest. For some reason people who have been more serious about COVID have had no issues with masks (once they got used to it) but people who have been in denial all along canít breathe. See the pattern?

Do you honestly think that all doctors and nurses prepared to go into that field by making sure theyíre ok with wearing masks? Or do you think doctors and nurses have changed careers because they have to wear masks now? Come now, thatís the definition of intellectually dishonest. Ask a doctor just how hard they find it once theyíre used to it.

Everyone who works in a hospital wears a mask all day. Theyíre all doing just fine and donít need to take it off every few minutes to breathe. Donít forget many of them are wearing far more restrictive masks than you are.
You're not following the conversation, he said "anyone who's being intelectually honest..." to which I said speak for yourself. His response was "I'm speaking for myself".

As far as your claim that it's a tiny step, I can scream until I'm blue in the face but you don't seem to care (and then claim you're the only one being intellectually honest) so I won't continue. I've heard the same from many other people. I sure am happy I don't work in a field that requires all day mask wearing, because I'm not sure what I would do.

I see you believe government overreach is impossible, because any time there is government overreach people are only upset because they're selfish.
I can't argue with denial of reality.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline S209

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Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
« Reply #330 on: July 02, 2020, 12:18:38 PM »
I can't argue with denial of reality.
Thank you, that would have been a more concise way for me to put it.

As I said, I do believe you think that way.

ETA: Where did you see I donít believe overreach *could* happen? Iím saying you lose neíemanus when youíre consistent with your approach even to a point where overreach *isnít* an issue. I personally *do* believe there has been overreach here. But I donít think that was your big problem. It was a rationalization.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2020, 12:22:16 PM by S209 »
Quote from: YitzyS
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Offline Lurker

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Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
« Reply #331 on: July 02, 2020, 12:24:07 PM »
Are you joking? With my profile picture is it even a question whether I have been to 770 lately?

Not sure if you're trying to refute the claim that it is debatable as to how much additional protection is offered by a mask when social distancing is adhered to.

So here's my question for you:

The latest update from The Gedalia Society (https://covid19ch.blogspot.com/2020/06/covid-19-update-34.html?m=1) discussed the recent positive Covid tests in CH from people who were previously infected months before. They give 3 possible explanations for the positive results: a) old, dead virus causing false positives; b) new infection caught from someone else; and c) these are flare ups of the first infection, which never left, just stayed dormant. The assumption of viral shed for both 'b' and 'c' follows the assumptions of any Covid positive, in that you are considered contagious if you're symptomatic, and should be careful for a period after symptoms leave just to be sure.


Given that reinfections are happening in CH, and visitors are coming from all over the world still, and social distancing is not happening anywhere in CH, and your position on the value of masks, how do you justify anyone not wearing a mask in CH?
Failing at maintaining Lurker status.

Offline cholent

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Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
« Reply #332 on: July 02, 2020, 01:11:00 PM »
The surgical mask is probably one of the easiest to wear. What was the issue?
I wore one for just 1.5 hours and was left with a smashing headache
Don't ask stupid questions and you won't get stupid answers

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
« Reply #333 on: July 02, 2020, 01:14:02 PM »
I can't argue with denial of reality.
Comes from the guy who says masks don't work. You can't make this stuff up.
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Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
« Reply #334 on: July 02, 2020, 01:14:50 PM »
I wore one for just 1.5 hours and was left with a smashing headache
Do others work better or you just can't wear one?
Only on DDF does 24/6 mean 24/5/half/half

Offline cholent

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Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
« Reply #335 on: July 02, 2020, 01:16:11 PM »
Do others work better or you just can't wear one?
I have the same issue with all. And I work in healthcare so it's an issue. At this point I just stay out of patient care areas as much as possible and guard my chin.
Don't ask stupid questions and you won't get stupid answers

Offline biobook

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Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
« Reply #336 on: July 02, 2020, 02:26:06 PM »
Speak for yourself. When I wear a mask I need to open it up to get a few breaths of air every couple of minutes. Yes, it is an imposition.
I'm going against the crowd here and sticking up for @avromie7 .  He doesn't have to wear a mask.  Yes, 100% of people should wear a mask, but if we got to 97% we'd be good with that. Avromie7 can be in the 3%.

There are various conditions that make mask-wearing almost impossible, such as COPD, asthma, PTSD, severe anxiety, certain allergies, claustrophobia, autism and cerebral palsy, among others.  We don't have to know what particular issue avromie7 has, but he's made it clear that he's an outlier, and that wearing a mask causes him more suffering than the majority of other people.

Here's some advice for those with problems wearing a mask, which includes staying home as much as possible, experimenting at home with wearing a mask to get used to it, trying different mask types, minimize time spent outdoors:

https://creakyjoints.org/living-with-arthritis/coronavirus/managing-symptoms/difficulty-breathing-face-mask-asthma-lung-disease/

And avromie7, if your Rov said you could eat on Yom Kippur because of some medical condition, would you proclaim it from the bima throughout the day?  I didn't think so.  So you personally can't wear a mask, okay, we get it, you'll deal with it.  But it's not necessarily relevant to what's best for the rest of society.

Offline avromie7

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Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
« Reply #337 on: July 02, 2020, 02:53:18 PM »
I'm going against the crowd here and sticking up for @avromie7 .  He doesn't have to wear a mask.  Yes, 100% of people should wear a mask, but if we got to 97% we'd be good with that. Avromie7 can be in the 3%.

There are various conditions that make mask-wearing almost impossible, such as COPD, asthma, PTSD, severe anxiety, certain allergies, claustrophobia, autism and cerebral palsy, among others.  We don't have to know what particular issue avromie7 has, but he's made it clear that he's an outlier, and that wearing a mask causes him more suffering than the majority of other people.

Here's some advice for those with problems wearing a mask, which includes staying home as much as possible, experimenting at home with wearing a mask to get used to it, trying different mask types, minimize time spent outdoors:

https://creakyjoints.org/living-with-arthritis/coronavirus/managing-symptoms/difficulty-breathing-face-mask-asthma-lung-disease/

And avromie7, if your Rov said you could eat on Yom Kippur because of some medical condition, would you proclaim it from the bima throughout the day?  I didn't think so.  So you personally can't wear a mask, okay, we get it, you'll deal with it.  But it's not necessarily relevant to what's best for the rest of society.
At first my issue was with people saying "it's not a big deal", even now I wear a mask when necessary. After reading this thread I've come to the realization that masks are little more than a way to make people feel like they're "doing something".

As far as why I find it uncomfortable, I don't have any respiratory condition but this quote from the article you posted sounds right:
Quote
The physical barrier of the mask makes it harder to take in air; it also traps some carbon dioxide as you exhale, which means you end up breathing in air that is warmer and moister.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline biobook

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Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
« Reply #338 on: July 02, 2020, 03:00:43 PM »
At first my issue was with people saying "it's not a big deal", even now I wear a mask when necessary. After reading this thread I've come to the realization that masks are little more than a way to make people feel like they're "doing something".
If you came to that realization by reading this thread, then you should read something else!  Try this:

https://www.masktoprotect.org/


Offline yuneeq

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Re: Do you know someone who has had Coronavirus after Pesach?
« Reply #339 on: July 02, 2020, 05:44:37 PM »
At first my issue was with people saying "it's not a big deal", even now I wear a mask when necessary. After reading this thread I've come to the realization that masks are little more than a way to make people feel like they're "doing something".

As far as why I find it uncomfortable, I don't have any respiratory condition but this quote from the article you posted sounds right:

Have you tried anything other than masks? Bandana, scarf, cloth, etc. You might find it easier, though I haven't tried. Some N95 are really easy to breathe in (and some are quite difficult). You can also use this - it makes breathing really easy: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B087TD169N
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