Author Topic: Will the truth come out how NYC & NYS made blunder after blunder?  (Read 51763 times)

Offline AsherO

  • Global Moderator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 30K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 30533
  • Total likes: 7829
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 79
    • View Profile
  • Location: NYC
Re: Will the truth come out how NYC & NYS made blunder after blunder?
« Reply #240 on: May 21, 2020, 05:04:51 PM »
Perhaps, but many countries have reopened to an extent and they seem to be doing a much better job at drawing lines and implementing restrictions than NY/NJ. If we’re going to proceed with extreme caution, that’s an approach, but a lot of the way they’re deciding what gets tossed and what stays in place seems to be arbitrary.

Unfortunately the stupid government are elected executives/representatives of a stupid population that thinks in binary terms: Lockdown/Normal.
100% of Likes will be donated to support our brothers and sisters in Eretz Yisrael

Offline S209

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2016
  • Posts: 7469
  • Total likes: 3930
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Gowns By Shevy
  • Location: Lakewood
  • Programs: Marriott Gold, Star Alliance Gold, Hyatt Explorist, Hertz PC, National EE, Rock Royalty Wild Card, Wyndham Diamond, MLife Gold, Caesars Diamond, Hilton Diamond, Uber VIP, IHG Platinum Elite, ANA Platinum, DDF Lifetime Prez Platinum Elite, AmEx Platinum
Re: Will the truth come out how NYC & NYS made blunder after blunder?
« Reply #241 on: May 21, 2020, 05:05:41 PM »
Unfortunately the stupid government are elected executives/representatives of a stupid population that thinks in binary terms: Lockdown/Normal.
+1000
Quote from: YitzyS
Quotes in a signature is annoying, as it comes across as an independent post.

Offline Afrages6

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Apr 2017
  • Posts: 917
  • Total likes: 401
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Will the truth come out how NYC & NYS made blunder after blunder?
« Reply #242 on: May 21, 2020, 05:06:10 PM »
Unfortunately it’s looking more and more like you’re right and many of the rules are arbitrary and not scientific
I’m curious which part specifically made you change your opinion?

Offline Afrages6

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Apr 2017
  • Posts: 917
  • Total likes: 401
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Will the truth come out how NYC & NYS made blunder after blunder?
« Reply #243 on: May 21, 2020, 05:07:27 PM »
Unfortunately the stupid government are elected executives/representatives of a stupid population that thinks in binary terms: Lockdown/Normal.
It’s really incredible how true and sad this is. And how many people are suffering because of a seemingly basic lack of understanding of the two.

Offline AsherO

  • Global Moderator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 30K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 30533
  • Total likes: 7829
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 79
    • View Profile
  • Location: NYC
Re: Will the truth come out how NYC & NYS made blunder after blunder?
« Reply #244 on: May 21, 2020, 05:09:38 PM »
It’s really incredible how true and sad this is. And how many people are suffering because of a seemingly basic lack of understanding of the infinite shades of grey between the two

FTFY
100% of Likes will be donated to support our brothers and sisters in Eretz Yisrael

Offline S209

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2016
  • Posts: 7469
  • Total likes: 3930
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Gowns By Shevy
  • Location: Lakewood
  • Programs: Marriott Gold, Star Alliance Gold, Hyatt Explorist, Hertz PC, National EE, Rock Royalty Wild Card, Wyndham Diamond, MLife Gold, Caesars Diamond, Hilton Diamond, Uber VIP, IHG Platinum Elite, ANA Platinum, DDF Lifetime Prez Platinum Elite, AmEx Platinum
Re: Will the truth come out how NYC & NYS made blunder after blunder?
« Reply #245 on: May 21, 2020, 05:11:31 PM »
I’m curious which part specifically made you change your opinion?
I never changed my mind, I agree with this
Most citizens won't blame government when they believe the government acted in good faith and that's when covid all started.

Currently, I believe the tide is turning, people don't understand why a clothing store  taking  more seriously SD then a packed wallmart must be closed. A beach can only open on May 22 and not May 21, what changed overnight.

In the USA we live on a model of freedom and  government has an obligation to restrict the least possible.
It was the right thing to lock down in the beginning. It’s the right thing to smartly and safely begin an expedited reopening process with regulations in place, guided by data.

NY/NJ bungled it one way in the beginning (by waiting too long, and then once lockdown was imminent, giving a few more brainless days before implementation, which seem to have been an absolute disaster for the spread) and are now bungling it the other way (by taking too long and without using data to make uniform sensible regulations and guidelines to reopening).
Quote from: YitzyS
Quotes in a signature is annoying, as it comes across as an independent post.

Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 17395
  • Total likes: 14333
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: Will the truth come out how NYC & NYS made blunder after blunder?
« Reply #246 on: May 21, 2020, 05:11:34 PM »
Perhaps, but many countries have reopened to an extent and they seem to be doing a much better job at drawing lines and implementing restrictions than NY/NJ. If we’re going to proceed with extreme caution, that’s an approach, but a lot of the way they’re deciding what gets tossed and what stays in place seems to be arbitrary.

That has been quite clear from when it all depended on industry and not activity and setting. One of the earliest examples was when construction was stopped unless it was affordable housing. It can be the same exact construction, but if it was affordable housing then it was fine but if it was to get a family bursting out of their aprtment (and stuck at home) into a house which fit them then it was dangerous.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Lurker

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jul 2019
  • Posts: 5054
  • Total likes: 6390
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
  • Location: As always, silence is NOT an admission of agreement on DDF. It just means that people lack the stamina to keep on arguing with made up "facts", illogical arguments, deceiving statements, nasty and degrading comments, and fuzzy math. - @yelped
Re: Will the truth come out how NYC & NYS made blunder after blunder?
« Reply #247 on: May 21, 2020, 05:19:03 PM »
It’s really incredible how true and sad this is. And how many people are suffering because of a seemingly basic lack of understanding that neither of the two are actually options.

FTFY
Failing at maintaining Lurker status.

Offline Afrages6

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Apr 2017
  • Posts: 917
  • Total likes: 401
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile

Offline Afrages6

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Apr 2017
  • Posts: 917
  • Total likes: 401
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Will the truth come out how NYC & NYS made blunder after blunder?
« Reply #249 on: May 21, 2020, 05:38:02 PM »
I never changed my mind, I agree with thisIt was the right thing to lock down in the beginning. It’s the right thing to smartly and safely begin an expedited reopening process with regulations in place, guided by data.

NY/NJ bungled it one way in the beginning (by waiting too long, and then once lockdown was imminent, giving a few more brainless days before implementation, which seem to have been an absolute disaster for the spread) and are now bungling it the other way (by taking too long and without using data to make uniform sensible regulations and guidelines to reopening).
I definitely think that the lockdown was the right thing in the beginning. I just think that the government wasted these last two months talking about nothing every day instead of putting policies in place for the future.

Offline KSMH

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2018
  • Posts: 2773
  • Total likes: 496
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 15
    • View Profile
Re: Will the truth come out how NYC & NYS made blunder after blunder?
« Reply #250 on: May 21, 2020, 05:38:59 PM »
Who said Cuomo is deviating? Maybe it’s CT that’s deviating.
It was Coumo that created and lead the INITIATIVE, he should stand up to it. Why did he start it, if any child would've told you it wouldn't work?
Unfortunately it’s looking more and more like you’re right and many of the rules are arbitrary and not scientific
Finally.

Time for people in general to stop thinking about this in a way that we are doing it because  "it's what's right".

There is a moral, legal and health perspective, none of these ever justified many of the government's actions.
That has been quite clear from when it all depended on industry and not activity and setting. One of the earliest examples was when construction was stopped unless it was affordable housing. It can be the same exact construction, but if it was affordable housing then it was fine but if it was to get a family bursting out of their aprtment (and stuck at home) into a house which fit them then it was dangerous.
I think it was from EO # 107 where  Murphy's ideological and political opinions played a huge role.
There is no denying.

I think I've wrote extensively in prior posts highlighting hypocrisy in some of the government's actions.

In NY it was from day 1.
Always praying for delayed baggage.

Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 17395
  • Total likes: 14333
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: Will the truth come out how NYC & NYS made blunder after blunder?
« Reply #251 on: May 21, 2020, 05:48:14 PM »
I definitely think that the lockdown was the right thing in the beginning. I just think that the government wasted these last two months talking about nothing every day instead of putting policies in place for the future.
Doing what they do best.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline CountValentine

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 15787
  • Total likes: 7316
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips -1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
  • Location: Poland - Exiled
  • Programs: DAOTYA, DDF Level 3, 5K Lounge
Re: Will the truth come out how NYC & NYS made blunder after blunder?
« Reply #252 on: May 21, 2020, 07:14:13 PM »
There was an article that used cellular tracking data to track where the infected from spring break Florida then spread out.

I was wrong about the Mardi gras dates, that was earlier.
So now you understand why I called out spring break and not Mardi Gras.
I guess that is close as to an apology I will get on this forum.  :)
Only on DDF does 24/6 mean 24/5/half/half

Offline KSMH

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2018
  • Posts: 2773
  • Total likes: 496
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 15
    • View Profile
Always praying for delayed baggage.

Offline AsherO

  • Global Moderator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 30K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 30533
  • Total likes: 7829
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 79
    • View Profile
  • Location: NYC
Re: Will the truth come out how NYC & NYS made blunder after blunder?
« Reply #254 on: May 21, 2020, 07:24:58 PM »
FTFY

Interesting way of looking at things. Neither of the two are actually what would provide optimal balance between safety and viability at this time?
100% of Likes will be donated to support our brothers and sisters in Eretz Yisrael

Offline Lurker

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jul 2019
  • Posts: 5054
  • Total likes: 6390
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
  • Location: As always, silence is NOT an admission of agreement on DDF. It just means that people lack the stamina to keep on arguing with made up "facts", illogical arguments, deceiving statements, nasty and degrading comments, and fuzzy math. - @yelped
Re: Will the truth come out how NYC & NYS made blunder after blunder?
« Reply #255 on: May 21, 2020, 07:53:22 PM »
Interesting way of looking at things. Neither of the two are actually what would provide optimal balance between safety and viability at this time?

Forget balance. Neither is feasible nor viable. Let's face it: when people are getting sick and dying all around you, there is no normal. Look at Sweden. The people are social distancing on their own, trying to maintain some semblance of normalcy, and their economy is still projected to crater. Additionally, they are facing sickness and death every day, and we've all witnessed the effects that can have on families and communities (and businesses).

As for lockdown, it's just not physically possible in the free world. The closest anyone in the world got was in Wuhan, with reports of doors being welded shut, and look at the pile of bodies there. Not to mention the rumors of a second wave starting there... But can you imagine an actual total lockdown in any country that even hints at being a democracy?

The best examples of success we've seen involve the country essentially closing it's borders to outsiders, and people giving up a lot of personal freedoms for a chance to live a life that vaguely resembles normal. GPS tracking, contact tracing, temperature checks before entering buildings, mandatory masks, and more.

I've ranted about this before, because I think the effects of extreme rhetoric are a massive impediment to productive dialog and finding actual solutions. Neither extreme is on the table, so the language needs to be cut out of the discussion.
Failing at maintaining Lurker status.

Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 17395
  • Total likes: 14333
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: Will the truth come out how NYC & NYS made blunder after blunder?
« Reply #256 on: May 21, 2020, 08:09:55 PM »
Forget balance. Neither is feasible nor viable. Let's face it: when people are getting sick and dying all around you, there is no normal. Look at Sweden. The people are social distancing on their own, trying to maintain some semblance of normalcy, and their economy is still projected to crater. Additionally, they are facing sickness and death every day, and we've all witnessed the effects that can have on families and communities (and businesses).

As for lockdown, it's just not physically possible in the free world. The closest anyone in the world got was in Wuhan, with reports of doors being welded shut, and look at the pile of bodies there. Not to mention the rumors of a second wave starting there... But can you imagine an actual total lockdown in any country that even hints at being a democracy?

The best examples of success we've seen involve the country essentially closing it's borders to outsiders, and people giving up a lot of personal freedoms for a chance to live a life that vaguely resembles normal. GPS tracking, contact tracing, temperature checks before entering buildings, mandatory masks, and more.

I've ranted about this before, because I think the effects of extreme rhetoric are a massive impediment to productive dialog and finding actual solutions. Neither extreme is on the table, so the language needs to be cut out of the discussion.
+1

The biggest impediment to reopening are those who can't understand why we are closed.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Afrages6

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Apr 2017
  • Posts: 917
  • Total likes: 401
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Will the truth come out how NYC & NYS made blunder after blunder?
« Reply #257 on: May 21, 2020, 08:59:10 PM »

The best examples of success we've seen involve the country essentially closing it's borders to outsiders, and people giving up a lot of personal freedoms for a chance to live a life that vaguely resembles normal. GPS tracking, contact tracing, temperature checks before entering buildings, mandatory masks, and more.


I agree with you that this is the only to combat it. The problem is that this was never a feasible way to go about things in the US because we are literally the global hub of the world. And closing borders means closing them for 12 months or more because the second you start letting people in and let them mix with a population that has zero built up immunity all that goes out the window.

The next alternative is to try and slow down the initial spread and put in a contact tracing program to try and prevent another outbreak which leads to overwhelm hospitals. We didn’t do that either on a national scale. Now we are at a point where we are reopening and are just gonna likely allow the virus to slowly spread across the country with a staggeringly high death toll at the country.

This could have been combated. But failure of leadership at all levels have failed us and it is too late to do anything about it.

Offline Kobe Bryant

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2017
  • Posts: 3763
  • Total likes: 2280
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 17
    • View Profile
Re: Will the truth come out how NYC & NYS made blunder after blunder?
« Reply #258 on: May 21, 2020, 09:47:31 PM »
I agree with you that this is the only to combat it. The problem is that this was never a feasible way to go about things in the US because we are literally the global hub of the world. And closing borders means closing them for 12 months or more because the second you start letting people in and let them mix with a population that has zero built up immunity all that goes out the window.

The next alternative is to try and slow down the initial spread and put in a contact tracing program to try and prevent another outbreak which leads to overwhelm hospitals. We didn’t do that either on a national scale. Now we are at a point where we are reopening and are just gonna likely allow the virus to slowly spread across the country with a staggeringly high death toll at the country.

This could have been combated. But failure of leadership at all levels have failed us and it is too late to do anything about it.

I am optimistic, if we separate the vulnerable population, i dont think we will have a high death toll.

Offline Kobe Bryant

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2017
  • Posts: 3763
  • Total likes: 2280
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 17
    • View Profile
Re: Will the truth come out how NYC & NYS made blunder after blunder?
« Reply #259 on: May 21, 2020, 09:51:50 PM »
Forget balance. Neither is feasible nor viable. Let's face it: when people are getting sick and dying all around you, there is no normal. Look at Sweden. The people are social distancing on their own, trying to maintain some semblance of normalcy, and their economy is still projected to crater. Additionally, they are facing sickness and death every day, and we've all witnessed the effects that can have on families and communities (and businesses).

As for lockdown, it's just not physically possible in the free world. The closest anyone in the world got was in Wuhan, with reports of doors being welded shut, and look at the pile of bodies there. Not to mention the rumors of a second wave starting there... But can you imagine an actual total lockdown in any country that even hints at being a democracy?

The best examples of success we've seen involve the country essentially closing it's borders to outsiders, and people giving up a lot of personal freedoms for a chance to live a life that vaguely resembles normal. GPS tracking, contact tracing, temperature checks before entering buildings, mandatory masks, and more.

I've ranted about this before, because I think the effects of extreme rhetoric are a massive impediment to productive dialog and finding actual solutions. Neither extreme is on the table, so the language needs to be cut out of the discussion.
We are on a roll. Couldn't agree more.
Other than saying it's a bit premature to say Sweden was wrong in its approach.