Author Topic: Is there a second wave?  (Read 21983 times)

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Re: Is there a second wave?
« Reply #45 on: May 08, 2020, 02:59:03 PM »
One more point: You may be right that it couldnít have happened, because even with all of the deaths and clear medical and government guidance some people have consistently refused to listen to the Rabbinical guidance against gatherings etc. Itís definitely possible even more people would not have listened to just Rabbanim alone, unfortunately.
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Re: Is there a second wave?
« Reply #46 on: May 10, 2020, 12:16:32 AM »
Read my post he was responding to. I said that within the week after Purim nobody acted to shut it down, which could have contained a lot of it. I specifically said I donít blame anyone but most doctors were on board at that point, with one notable exception who waited until the following Wed and Thurs to finally wake up, by which time it was unfortunately too late for most. Yes, the few days after Purim almost all doctors in Lakewood (By Monday just about everyone except the one exception) were advising people to stay home and not go out.I suggested that the difference between a decent amount of spread and the crazy spread to the extent that happened was the week after Purim. I maintain that if schools, businesses, and shuls would not have opened the following week at all a lot of the tragedy could have been averted. Once again, Iím not saying I blame anyone. But MANY were calling for that.

I donít know where you live, I was and am talking about Lakewood

I also live in Lakewood and I follow Doctors recommendations Rabbonims recommendations and Gov't rules.

The gov't didn't shut down schools or other things till Wed over a week after Purim. The mainstream doctors weren't calling for a shutdown earlier than that (Dr. Roth is an eye Dr and Mr roberts is not a practicing physician). The rabbonim didn't close shuls till that Wednesday as well.

So I have to agree with the ones accusing you of revisionist history. Quoting a few people on DDF who were calling for shutdowns at that point is ridiculous. While DDF is great I hope you don't base your life decisions on what people post on DDF.

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Re: Is there a second wave?
« Reply #47 on: May 10, 2020, 12:31:28 AM »
I also live in Lakewood and I follow Doctors recommendations Rabbonims recommendations and Gov't rules.

The gov't didn't shut down schools or other things till Wed over a week after Purim. The mainstream doctors weren't calling for a shutdown earlier than that (Dr. Roth is an eye Dr and Mr roberts is not a practicing physician). The rabbonim didn't close shuls till that Wednesday as well.

So I have to agree with the ones accusing you of revisionist history. Quoting a few people on DDF who were calling for shutdowns at that point is ridiculous. While DDF is great I hope you don't base your life decisions on what people post on DDF.
You apparently don't know what was going on behind the scenes.
The thing with the hamster is that running on the wheel is actually what it is trying to do.

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Re: Is there a second wave?
« Reply #48 on: May 10, 2020, 12:32:53 AM »
You apparently don't know what was going on behind the scenes.
wait for the letter coming out on Monday

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Re: Is there a second wave?
« Reply #49 on: May 10, 2020, 12:33:30 AM »
I also live in Lakewood and I follow Doctors recommendations Rabbonims recommendations and Gov't rules.

The gov't didn't shut down schools or other things till Wed over a week after Purim. The mainstream doctors weren't calling for a shutdown earlier than that (Dr. Roth is an eye Dr and Mr roberts is not a practicing physician). The rabbonim didn't close shuls till that Wednesday as well.

So I have to agree with the ones accusing you of revisionist history. Quoting a few people on DDF who were calling for shutdowns at that point is ridiculous. While DDF is great I hope you don't base your life decisions on what people post on DDF.

In NY, schools were being closed the week of Purim. In PA, Purim was the last week of school. Here in FL, with minimal cases, schools were all closed either the Friday after Purim, or that was their last day. Let me be clear that this response isn't personal, but I'm using this to illustrate an issue that has been brought up numerous times before. The initial response in Lakewood cost lives. They were slow. You can blame it on Rabbonim, you can blame it on Askanim, you can blame it on Dr. Shanik, you can blame it on the government. The fact of the matter is, other people and places reacted up to 2 weeks before Lakewood shut down. To live in a bubble has it's maalos. But you can't shut out the world and then claim revisionist history because you weren't paying attention.
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Re: Is there a second wave?
« Reply #50 on: May 10, 2020, 12:51:19 AM »
You apparently don't know what was going on behind the scenes.
What was going on behind the scenes is irrelevant to this discussion. We were discussing what was being called for publicly by the doctors at that time.
Lies. Everyone but one major doctor called for serious restrictions.
This is plain and simplly untrue

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Re: Is there a second wave?
« Reply #51 on: May 10, 2020, 12:55:24 AM »
While DDF is great I hope you don't base your life decisions on what people post on DDF.
You don't?

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Re: Is there a second wave?
« Reply #52 on: May 10, 2020, 01:00:58 AM »
In NY, schools were being closed the week of Purim. In PA, Purim was the last week of school. Here in FL, with minimal cases, schools were all closed either the Friday after Purim, or that was their last day. Let me be clear that this response isn't personal, but I'm using this to illustrate an issue that has been brought up numerous times before. The initial response in Lakewood cost lives. They were slow. You can blame it on Rabbonim, you can blame it on Askanim, you can blame it on Dr. Shanik, you can blame it on the government. The fact of the matter is, other people and places reacted up to 2 weeks before Lakewood shut down. To live in a bubble has it's maalos. But you can't shut out the world and then claim revisionist history because you weren't paying attention.
In NY schools were open thru Fri after Purim. They closed after that because Gov Cuomo closed the schools then. In FL the governor also closed schools on Fri Mar 13. In Lakewood (and other places in NJ not just in the bubble society in Lakewood) they were open thru the following Tuesday (a difference of 3 days) and that is because that is when Gov Murphy closed the schools. Additionally there were confirmed cases in NY before there were in NJ (that is why shuls in Far Rockaway etc closed before shabbos and in lakewood on wed. There were confirmed cases in 5t and there were not in Lakewood).

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Re: Is there a second wave?
« Reply #53 on: May 10, 2020, 01:07:14 AM »
In NY schools were open thru Fri after Purim. They closed after that because Gov Cuomo closed the schools then. In FL the governor also closed schools on Fri Mar 13. In Lakewood (and other places in NJ not just in the bubble society in Lakewood) they were open thru the following Tuesday (a difference of 3 days) and that is because that is when Gov Murphy closed the schools. Additionally there were confirmed cases in NY before there were in NJ (that is why shuls in Far Rockaway etc closed before shabbos and in lakewood on wed. There were confirmed cases in 5t and there were not in Lakewood).

In NY, there were schools closed before Cuomo closed public schools, and in FL some of the Jewish school closure announcements came before county decisions.But I'm not here to rehash the details. I commented on one thing:

No one was calling for it. Revisionist history

The fact is, it was being called for, and loudly, making the above statement patently false.
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Re: Is there a second wave?
« Reply #55 on: May 10, 2020, 06:45:22 AM »
Most telling to me is that the Rabbis whom determined around Purim that the danger was insufficient to close shuls are now using a much lower bar to keep the shuls closed. We must accept that one of the two decisions were mistaken.
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Re: Is there a second wave?
« Reply #56 on: May 10, 2020, 07:09:30 AM »
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-china-idUSKBN22M00V
If 14 new cases is a second wave then we are gonna be shut down here in NY forever

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Re: Is there a second wave?
« Reply #57 on: May 10, 2020, 07:10:45 AM »
Most telling to me is that the Rabbis whom determined around Purim that the danger was insufficient to close shuls are now using a much lower bar to keep the shuls closed. We must accept that one of the two decisions were mistaken.
I think that the decision then was made without the knowledge of asymptomatic carriers and therefore with a different set of facts now its a different decision.

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Re: Is there a second wave?
« Reply #58 on: May 10, 2020, 08:18:21 AM »
Meanwhile in Georgia

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Re: Is there a second wave?
« Reply #59 on: May 10, 2020, 08:24:02 AM »
If 14 new cases is a second wave then we are gonna be shut down here in NY forever

Well, China does like to take a couple zeros off the end of a number :)