Author Topic: His crime was he was black!!!  (Read 31647 times)

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: His crime was he was black!!!
« Reply #240 on: November 24, 2021, 08:33:41 AM »
But how was the offense committed in their presence or immediate knowledge?
"Immidiate knowledge" they had personal information and knowledge leading up to that point

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: His crime was he was black!!!
« Reply #241 on: November 24, 2021, 09:10:53 AM »
https://youtu.be/iXNUEH-Jyn0

Here is the judge's decision.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: His crime was he was black!!!
« Reply #242 on: November 24, 2021, 10:37:03 AM »
The language of the law is pretty clear that for a felony that is not required, only "reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion.."
You are forgetting the other part for a felony " If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape"

What felony did he commit that they had "reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion"?

On the stand he stated he no knowledge of any crime at the time.
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Offline zh cohen

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Re: His crime was he was black!!!
« Reply #243 on: November 24, 2021, 10:42:19 AM »

What felony did he commit that they had "reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion"?

According to the defense, they had "reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion" that he was committing felony burglary.

Offline zh cohen

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Re: His crime was he was black!!!
« Reply #244 on: November 24, 2021, 10:43:19 AM »

On the stand he stated he no knowledge of any crime at the time.

According to the defense, that is not the standard, if they suspect a felony.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: His crime was he was black!!!
« Reply #245 on: November 24, 2021, 10:46:28 AM »
According to the defense, they had "reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion" that he was committing felony burglary.
According to the defense they could have won the lottery.  :)
What felony burglary, when he was never seen taking anything. There are many videos of him.
Again he stated he no knowledge of ANY crime that was committed.
Being black is not "reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion".
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Offline CountValentine

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Re: His crime was he was black!!!
« Reply #246 on: November 24, 2021, 10:48:46 AM »
According to the defense, that is not the standard, if they suspect a felony.
The defense can say anything they want. According to statue and the judge they are wrong.
You read the statue. What does it mean to you?
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Offline zh cohen

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Re: His crime was he was black!!!
« Reply #247 on: November 24, 2021, 10:59:30 AM »
Being black is not "reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion".

Guy gets caught on video repeatedly looking around a house that has stuff missing from it.

Guy runs away the first time you catch him in the house.

You see the guy at the house again.

Is that "reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion" that he is stealing the stuff that is missing?

Offline CountValentine

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Re: His crime was he was black!!!
« Reply #248 on: November 24, 2021, 11:01:48 AM »
Guy gets caught on video repeatedly looking around a house that has stuff missing from it.

Guy runs away the first time you catch him in the house.

You see the guy at the house again.

Is that "reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion" that he is stealing the stuff that is missing?
You have many videos of him in the house. Not one shows him taking anything. How do you make the jump that he stole something?
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Offline zh cohen

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Re: His crime was he was black!!!
« Reply #249 on: November 24, 2021, 11:02:25 AM »
You read the statue. What does it mean to you?

First Sentence - If you see someone doing a minor crime you have the right to do a citizens arrest.

Second sentence - If you have "reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion"   that someone did a felony, even if you did not see it happen, you have the right to do a citizens arrest

Offline CountValentine

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Re: His crime was he was black!!!
« Reply #250 on: November 24, 2021, 11:11:22 AM »
First Sentence - If you see someone doing a minor crime you have the right to do a citizens arrest.

Second sentence - If you have "reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion"   that someone did a felony, even if you did not see it happen, you have the right to do a citizens arrest
Is this the statue we are discussing?

A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion.
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Offline zh cohen

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Re: His crime was he was black!!!
« Reply #251 on: November 24, 2021, 11:14:24 AM »
Is this the statue we are discussing?

A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion.

Yes. Do you read it differently?

Offline CountValentine

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Re: His crime was he was black!!!
« Reply #252 on: November 24, 2021, 11:20:45 AM »
Yes. Do you read it differently?
Then you twisted it. There is no "minor crime" mentioned. Also, he has to be fleeing from a felony.
Are you playing devil's advocate or do you actually believe what you are writing?
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Offline zh cohen

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Re: His crime was he was black!!!
« Reply #253 on: November 24, 2021, 11:25:05 AM »
Then you twisted it. There is no "minor crime" mentioned.

So how do you understand the first sentence?

Also, he has to be fleeing from a felony.

Was he not fleeing?

Are you playing devil's advocate or do you actually believe what you are writing?

I did not follow the case closely enough to have an educated opinion, but I see a lot of claims being made here and in other places that are not consistent with the facts that I see.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: His crime was he was black!!!
« Reply #254 on: November 24, 2021, 11:30:49 AM »
So how do you understand the first sentence?
The first sentence has nothing to with this as he admitted he didn't see anything or have immediate knowledge of any crime committed.

Do you agree so we can move to the second part?
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Re: His crime was he was black!!!
« Reply #255 on: November 24, 2021, 11:33:00 AM »
Was he not fleeing?
Fleeing from what?
You keep picking out a word here and there.
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Re: His crime was he was black!!!
« Reply #256 on: November 24, 2021, 11:41:32 AM »
Fleeing from what?

The scene of the suspected crime.

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: His crime was he was black!!!
« Reply #257 on: November 24, 2021, 11:44:50 AM »
Yes. Do you read it differently?

The way the judge reads it in the video above makes way more sense. And you've mentioned the law "is clear" when the defense themselves said it is not clear, and because it is confusing, that's why there is an argument. (I might argue they were saying that because the DA and judge's interpretation was far more straightforward than theirs, and they were trying to make a case for their krumeh interpretation.)

Guy gets caught on video repeatedly looking around a house that has stuff missing from it.

Guy runs away the first time you catch him in the house.

You see the guy at the house again.

Is that "reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion" that he is stealing the stuff that is missing?

He is seen repeatedly not stealing anything, and the owner himself asks the police to tell him to stop coming, not that he is a thief, but that he is tripping the motion sensor and alarm.

When he was shot, he wasn't caught in the house. They only knew he had been in the house long after the shooting. They chased him because he was running, and they assumed he must have been running *from something*.

The prior meeting, the "gun" in the waistband, the stolen stuff on the boat - all of this came long after the video emerged. At the time they made lengthy statements, there is video, they are quite clear on what they were intending to do and what they knew. There is not a single word said about a citizen's arrest, there is not a single word said about detaining him on suspicion of burglary. It's all "he was running, we thought he must have been running from something, we thought maybe he was a guy who was trespassing other times, we wanted to talk to him, we wanted to ID him" etc. Nothing like they had reason to believe this was the guy who committed a specific felony for which they wanted to detain him.

And even if you grant they had probable cause for a felony arrest, and even if the judge *would have* granted their charge that it doesn't have to happen immediately after the crime, they still can't use excessive force, and if they do, Arbery has the right to resist - negating their claim of self-defense.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: His crime was he was black!!!
« Reply #258 on: November 24, 2021, 11:47:28 AM »
The scene of the suspected crime.
So we have this kid who is on video many times in the house never taking anything. He is then seen jogging down the street. What felony (not crime) did he suspect him of?
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Offline A3

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Re: His crime was he was black!!!
« Reply #259 on: November 24, 2021, 12:17:24 PM »
So we have this kid who is on video many times in the house never taking anything. He is then seen jogging down the street. What felony (not crime) did he suspect him of?
Who jogs with no socks and toenails out?