Author Topic: Minyan Guidance In Your Community  (Read 24102 times)

Offline Kobe Bryant

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Re: Minyan Guidance In Your Community
« Reply #100 on: May 17, 2020, 08:54:09 PM »
Maybe because in many parts of NYC they are already open ;)

If anything it's less.....

Offline S209

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Re: Minyan Guidance In Your Community
« Reply #101 on: May 18, 2020, 10:43:52 AM »




Quote from: YitzyS
Quotes in a signature is annoying, as it comes across as an independent post.

Offline AsherO

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Re: Minyan Guidance In Your Community
« Reply #102 on: May 18, 2020, 10:49:11 PM »
BH. Is it just me, or if the Shul buildings are able to open, why can't the maximum capacity be proportionate?

How do you easily calculate this? Fire code capacity has different considerations than social distancing capacity.
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Offline Sam Finkelstein

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Re: Minyan Guidance In Your Community
« Reply #103 on: May 18, 2020, 11:01:28 PM »
How do you easily calculate this? Fire code capacity has different considerations than social distancing capacity.

All I'm saying is that an auditorium with 800 seats shouldn't be treated the same as a Beis Medrash with 200 seats.
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Offline AsherO

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Re: Minyan Guidance In Your Community
« Reply #104 on: May 18, 2020, 11:02:42 PM »
All I'm saying is that an auditorium with 800 seats shouldn't be treated the same as a Beis Medrash with 200 seats.

Agreed. But what does the sliding-scale equivalent of “no more than 15”  look like, that doesn’t become a slippery slope for misinterpretation/ambiguity?
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Offline Sam Finkelstein

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Re: Minyan Guidance In Your Community
« Reply #105 on: May 18, 2020, 11:04:19 PM »
Agreed. But what does the “no more than 15” equivalent of that look like, that doesn’t become a slippery slope for misinterpretation/ambiguity?

Figure out the dimensions of the room and make a firm determination based on that. Or better, mark each individual's spot, keeping them apart.
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Offline AsherO

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Re: Minyan Guidance In Your Community
« Reply #106 on: May 18, 2020, 11:06:08 PM »
Figure out the dimensions of the room and make a firm determination based on that. Or better, mark each individual's spot, keeping them apart.

Marking spots is a slippery slope, especially since people don’t stand still, passage is an issue (especially in larger spaces, you still have limited corridors/exits) etc.
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Offline Lurker

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Re: Minyan Guidance In Your Community
« Reply #107 on: May 18, 2020, 11:07:59 PM »
Figure out the dimensions of the room and make a firm determination based on that. Or better, mark each individual's spot, keeping them apart.

There are so many other factors. Next you'll have people asking for variances for things air circulation and filtration, or ceiling height, or UV lamps.
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Offline Sam Finkelstein

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Re: Minyan Guidance In Your Community
« Reply #108 on: May 18, 2020, 11:12:13 PM »
Fine. But a static number is impractical and seems unnecessary. If everyone can stay apart and there's someone in charge to enforce it, wouldn't it be silly to limit a huge shul to just 15 people while you have other classrooms a fraction of the size with 15 people also?
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Offline Lurker

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Re: Minyan Guidance In Your Community
« Reply #109 on: May 18, 2020, 11:19:34 PM »
Fine. But a static number is impractical and seems unnecessary. If everyone can stay apart and there's someone in charge to enforce it, wouldn't it be silly to limit a huge shul to just 15 people while you have other classrooms a fraction of the size with 15 people also?

I don't disagree

I hate these "guidelines." 15 people in a shteibel and 15 people in a massive shul are not equal. To give a blanket guideline like that is pointless. Also, what percentage of shuls in NYC will actually (be able to) limit participation to 15 mispallelim?

It was stupid of them to open the door (so to speak) without thinking it through from all angles. I don't think they can even tell you the reason behind "15" other than they need to have a number to keep it from getting overcrowded, and that seemed like a good number to someone. But to start rationalizing without knowing the science behind the calculation, or what the calculation should be, is a very slippery slope which will cause a lot of problems.
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Offline Yehudaa

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Re: Minyan Guidance In Your Community
« Reply #110 on: May 18, 2020, 11:20:29 PM »
There are so many other factors. Next you'll have people asking for variances for things air circulation and filtration, or ceiling height, or UV lamps.
They can ask, just say no. Area is a pretty simple system to use. Where I live they're currently allowing certain stores to reopen with occupancy limited according to x sf/person.

Offline AsherO

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Re: Minyan Guidance In Your Community
« Reply #111 on: May 18, 2020, 11:21:08 PM »
Fine. But a static number is impractical and seems unnecessary. If everyone can stay apart and there's someone in charge to enforce it, wouldn't it be silly to limit a huge shul to just 15 people while you have other classrooms a fraction of the size with 15 people also?

The government has broad rules enforcing social distancing. They’re carving out an exception here and will naturally err on the side of caution. A static number is likely the best official version you’ll get. It’s possible that off the record they’ll make other specific exceptions.
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Re: Minyan Guidance In Your Community
« Reply #112 on: May 18, 2020, 11:31:17 PM »
Agreed. But what does the sliding-scale equivalent of “no more than 15”  look like, that doesn’t become a slippery slope for misinterpretation/ambiguity?

30 per 1000 square feet of actual floor space or whatever the calculation is. The issue would be odd shapes and furniture.
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Offline AsherO

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Re: Minyan Guidance In Your Community
« Reply #113 on: May 18, 2020, 11:39:03 PM »
30 per 1000 square feet of actual floor space or whatever the calculation is. The issue would be odd shapes and furniture.

The smaller shuls would end up with less than 15. Saying “15 max or 30 per 1000sqft” draws attention to the fact that you’re giving the smallest shuls a free pass to congregate without social distancing.
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Re: Minyan Guidance In Your Community
« Reply #114 on: May 18, 2020, 11:41:01 PM »
The smaller shuls would end up with less than 15. Saying “15 max or 30 per 1000sqft” draws attention to the fact that you’re giving the smallest shuls a free pass to congregate without social distancing.
They should not allow that.
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Offline moko

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Re: Minyan Guidance In Your Community
« Reply #115 on: May 18, 2020, 11:41:19 PM »
Don't all these shuls have maximum occupancy restrictions? How 30% occupancy? Or whatever % allows for SD

Offline AsherO

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Re: Minyan Guidance In Your Community
« Reply #116 on: May 18, 2020, 11:42:36 PM »
Don't all these shuls have maximum occupancy restrictions? How 30% occupancy? Or whatever % allows for SD

How do you easily calculate this? Fire code capacity has different considerations than social distancing capacity.
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Re: Minyan Guidance In Your Community
« Reply #117 on: May 18, 2020, 11:43:10 PM »
Don't all these shuls have maximum occupancy restrictions? How 30% occupancy? Or whatever % allows for SD
That is also dependent on exits not only sqft
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Offline moko

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Re: Minyan Guidance In Your Community
« Reply #118 on: May 18, 2020, 11:46:32 PM »

so? The same dudes who figure out those capacities can figure this out. It can't be rocket science to recalculate the capacity especially in rooms that only have the minimum requirement of 2 exits. Err on the side of caution.
% still makes a lot more sense than a fixed number.

Offline AsherO

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Re: Minyan Guidance In Your Community
« Reply #119 on: May 18, 2020, 11:50:48 PM »
so? The same dudes who figure out those capacities can figure this out. It can't be rocket science to recalculate the capacity especially in rooms that only have the minimum requirement of 2 exits. Err on the side of caution.
% still makes a lot more sense than a fixed number.

Sounds nice, but NYC isn’t rewriting the equivalent of the fire code just so we can have ברוב עם for Shavuos.
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