Author Topic: Minyan Guidance In Your Community  (Read 24108 times)

Offline yaakov35

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Re: Minyan Guidance In Your Community
« Reply #180 on: May 21, 2020, 11:06:04 PM »
Who did you feel is missing?
The BMG poskim? Their signatures were on the others, no?

Offline aygart

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Re: Minyan Guidance In Your Community
« Reply #181 on: May 21, 2020, 11:07:15 PM »
The same few signatures that have been on every Lakewood policy for the last 20 years.
These are basically the same as have been on all of the other letters since the beginning.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Kobe Bryant

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Re: Minyan Guidance In Your Community
« Reply #182 on: May 21, 2020, 11:07:33 PM »
Who did you feel is missing?
R' Forchheimer.
Nvrm, i see his signature on the bottom right.

Offline aygart

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Re: Minyan Guidance In Your Community
« Reply #183 on: May 21, 2020, 11:07:49 PM »
The BMG poskim? Their signatures were on the others, no?
All 4 are there
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Kobe Bryant

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Re: Minyan Guidance In Your Community
« Reply #184 on: May 21, 2020, 11:08:31 PM »
These are basically the same as have been on all of the other letters since the beginning of time.
FTFY

Offline aygart

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Re: Minyan Guidance In Your Community
« Reply #185 on: May 21, 2020, 11:09:25 PM »
FTFY
The Roshei Yeshiva are not on there
ETA they are on this
« Last Edit: May 21, 2020, 11:26:04 PM by aygart »
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline dealfinder11

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Re: Minyan Guidance In Your Community
« Reply #186 on: May 21, 2020, 11:32:32 PM »
Interesting how vague it is.

Intentionally so. I believe Murphy is going to make the guidelines more clear. Expect to mention exits and percentage of capacity.

Offline ari3

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Re: Minyan Guidance In Your Community
« Reply #187 on: May 21, 2020, 11:48:49 PM »
Intentionally so. I believe Murphy is going to make the guidelines more clear. Expect to mention exits and percentage of capacity.
People have been saying for a week and a half that Murphy will update the guidelines. There were meetings with him last week and still nothing. What I saw quoted from today's press conference sounded like he had no intention of allowing anything of the sort for another few weeks. Do they know something is coming or just hoping? or are they being vague so everyone can try to do what they can without running into trouble?

Offline Kobe Bryant

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Re: Minyan Guidance In Your Community
« Reply #188 on: May 22, 2020, 07:52:36 AM »
People have been saying for a week and a half that Murphy will update the guidelines. There were meetings with him last week and still nothing. What I saw quoted from today's press conference sounded like he had no intention of allowing anything of the sort for another few weeks. Do they know something is coming or just hoping? or are they being vague so everyone can try to do what they can without running into trouble?
When has Murphy ever been clear on anything related to the pandemic?

Offline yungermanchik

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Re: Minyan Guidance In Your Community
« Reply #189 on: May 22, 2020, 08:40:49 AM »
Quote
Shalom U'Brachah!
We are overjoyed that the State is beginning to allow minyanim to take place indoors under certain very strict guidelines. We invite each man and bochur over the age of 13 who is willing to commit to the following guidelines to join us as we explore how we can do so safely and in compliance with the government:

Govornor Cuomo has allowed minyanim to take place with the following important caveats:

1) Strict Social Distancing is enforced
2) No more than 10 people may be in the room
3) Masks must be worn by everyone, at all times

It is our goal to set up a system where we can comply with these government guidelines, and practice basic and smart safety measures, while still allowing all who wish to join a minyan to do so.

There are two segments of the tzibbur that need to work together for this to be a reality. We will need the cooperation of about 5-8 gabbaim. To be a Gabbai of a minyan is going to be a lot of work organizing times, organizing which Sifrei Torah will be where when, and most importantly, other details pertaining to the safety and compliance of your particular minyan.

But then we also need the cooperation of the tzibbur at large. If people cannot commit to wear masks these minyanim are not an option for them. Additionally, as frum Yidden, we know that getting the same 10 people at the same minyan on time every single day is a challenge. We need just about every person in each minyan to commit to coming on time, to each minyan. While this is nearly impossible, we will implement a system among the Gabbaim to make it easier. But without many commitments, it will not work.
At full capacity, we envision 8 or more minyanim for Shavuos. Even as everyone is expected to either fully cooperate of stay home, there are a lot of moving parts. For this reason, we are going to start slow. We will implement, if possible, 2 or 3 minyanim over Shabbos or parts of Shabbos, and scale up over next week, as more people participate.

Here are a list of guidelines we would like everyone to follow. If you are willing to join these minyanim, we will ask that you sign at the bottom, and we will call you and tell you which minyan you are a part of. If you have not received a call from us, you may not enter Yeshiva at all.

1) Each minyan will have 10 people in the room, not more. There will be up to 3 people allowed - and in fact, designated - to join each minyan from outside the room, remaining socially distant. This allows the gabbaim a little flex in the cases where certain people can only commit to come to certain minyanim. Your Gabbai will be in charge of telling each person where to stand. [There will hopefully be ten people in the Ezras Nashim, who can be used as fillers if other minyanim are short - this is a detail for the Gabbaim to work out.]

2) Members of each minyan will be assigned an entrance to Yeshiva. Please use only that entrance to access your minyan. (Physical handicaps are of course an exception to this rule. Able bodied folk, however, agree to comply with their designated entrance and exit,
even if it is not so convenient and "the course is clear”.)

3) Each person must bring his own siddur and/or Chumash. All seforim that belong to Yeshiva are off limits, and may not be touched.

4) Nobody may enter Yeshiva without an assigned minyan. You will be assigned a minyan with a Gabbai (who will know the times location and participants of his minyan) and only then may you enter the building. [If you have guests, they must register as well - no more than 10 people will be allowed in the room and there may not be room for them, in which case they will be forced to leave, creating an embarrassing situation for all involved]. If you miss your minyan, or if you want to "chap a minyan", this is not an option. Please do not wait for the Gabbaim to remove you, it is embarrassing for them. Simply do not come if you cannot make your assigned minyan.

5) All bathrooms in Yeshiva remain off limits for everybody. We understand that this is very inconvenient for some people. Please consider if this issue will make you unable to be counted on for a minyan. We will try to loosen this requirement as soon as we can, but
compliance with this point at this juncture is required.

6) Although we are very machshiv our younger mispallim and the Nashim Tzidkanios who daven with us, at this time every one of them that would join us would make it that a gadol (who has a chiyuv) is potentially not eligible. This will be a future phase of the opening. Right now, regrettably, they are not invited to join.

7) At this time, any minyanim do not include a permit to remain to learn in Yeshiva. We will also try to loosen this requirement
as soon as we can, but compliance with this point at this juncture is required.

8 ) Any minyan that is found not to be operating according to these guidelines will be closed down, and its members will not be invited to join other minyanim.

9) We must stress that Yeshiva remains closed for any purpose other than the people who registered, and only for attending their minyanim.

Once we have some Gabbaim, we will try to group people in a way that makes sense. I.e., Older people where its more spread out, younger people where there are more stairs to climb, people who can definitely be relied on to be on time as steadies, people who have complicated schedules as backups. He'aros as of how to streamline this system, if sent in writing, will be reviewed, so please send them if you have them.

Please cooperate. This is an opportunity for the entire community to be able to daven in Yeshiva, but only if all the above rules are complied with.

Some people may feel some of these measures are too strict. Please bear in mind that it makes little difference what any specific individual feels. The rules set forth above have been culled based on the requirements of the government and the advice of the Rosh HaYeshiva, shlit'a, and the advice of medical professionals, and will be the only set of rules that anyone who wishes to join us in Yeshiva must follow. This does unfortunately mean that anyone who is not willing to commit to follow all of the above rules may not, al pi the Rosh HaYeshiva, shlit'a, enter the Yeshiva building at all.

----------, will bli neder try my best to adhere to what is written above.
Thank you for your cooperation, and looking forward to reopening Yeshiva as soon as we can!

---------------------                                                ______________
Rosh HaYeshiva, shlit"a                                                 --

When this form is complete, please send it to _, by putting it in his mailbox or giving it to him at davening, and we will begin the joyous process of coming back into Yeshiva. If you have not done so, you may not enter the Yeshiva building. Thank you.
P.S. Please note that if there is a group of people who would rather continue having outdoor minyanim, that is fine as well. Please note that of course you may not enter the Yeshiva building, no exceptions, even if something changes (i.e., only nine of your minyan showed up, or it started raining, or anything else).
Additionally, please note that there are only three people in the community who are authorized by the Rosh HaYeshiva, shlit"а, to authorize the use of a Sefer Torah outside. They are _, _, and _. No one else may authorize the use of a Sefer Torah. One of them should be consulted each time, because the circumstances can change. This precaution is necessary to ensure the Sefer is only used in a way or in weather that is appropriate.


For Potential Gabbaim:
1) Thank you for volunteering! We do not feel that these minyanim would be possible in a
safe and permitted way unless led by a Gabbai, and we thank you for taking the initiative to serve the tzibbur. (It is always good to remember this when you get into your first
altercation with someone, etc.).
2) You are the liaison between R' _ and your tzibbur. All questions of policy
should be directed to him, with no exceptions.
3) The location and the timing of your minyan will be set by R' _. You will be in
charge of discussing with your minyan what time they want to daven, but all must be
cleared with him.
4) If you are lucky enough to have two Sifrei Torah in your minyan (you hopefully won't, as
we hope to have many minyanim) your policies must mirror the policies in the Rosh HaYeshiva's minyan. The policy regarding Krias HaTorah if your minyan has one Sefer Torah must follow guidelines set in R' _'s minyan.
5) You will have to find a baal koreh for leining. We may have ways to allow more people to access krias haTorah under limited circumstances (Ezras Nashim, or in an emergency, outside) but for most minyanim, most of the time, you will need a baal koreh. You may resort to splitting the parshah between 2 or 3 people if you must. Most of the minyanim will not be laining the haftoros with a klaf, al pi the Rosh HaYeshiva, shlit" a, so no need to have that prepared (although it is always a good idea to
look it over).
6) It is your responsibility to ask any person in your minyan who is not complying with either the requirement to wear a mask or social distancing to leave. If you do, and he does not, do not become upset, or threaten, or anything like that. However, let him know that going forward, your minyan is being cancelled. (And it will be cancelled.]
To volunteer to be a Gabbai, please reach out to R' _ right away!
I edited it to remove identifying details, But otherwise this is what they sent out in my community.
Small people talk about other people.
Average people talk about things
BIG PEOPLE TALK ABOUT IDEAS.

Offline dealfinder11

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Re: Minyan Guidance In Your Community
« Reply #190 on: May 22, 2020, 09:16:42 AM »
People have been saying for a week and a half that Murphy will update the guidelines. There were meetings with him last week and still nothing. What I saw quoted from today's press conference sounded like he had no intention of allowing anything of the sort for another few weeks. Do they know something is coming or just hoping? or are they being vague so everyone can try to do what they can without running into trouble?

i'm not speculating. Things can always change but i'm going to tune in to the 11 am presser. There is an ongoing push to expand the number. I guess we will find out in a few hours.

Offline aygart

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Re: Minyan Guidance In Your Community
« Reply #191 on: May 22, 2020, 11:04:55 AM »
i'm not speculating. Things can always change but i'm going to tune in to the 11 am presser. There is an ongoing push to expand the number. I guess we will find out in a few hours.
OUtdoor up to 25 people indoor to 10.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline avromie7

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Re: Minyan Guidance In Your Community
« Reply #192 on: May 22, 2020, 11:19:10 AM »
I edited it to remove identifying details, But otherwise this is what they sent out in my community.
Now I see why they kept the second set of Nach around. ;)
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline dealfinder11

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Re: Minyan Guidance In Your Community
« Reply #193 on: May 22, 2020, 11:25:48 AM »
OUtdoor up to 25 people indoor to 10.

Looks like that is all we are going to get. Does that mean indoor minyanim are going to be restricted to 10 per a room? I know my shul put out an allowance for more people per a minyan. 

Offline aygart

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Re: Minyan Guidance In Your Community
« Reply #194 on: May 22, 2020, 11:30:36 AM »
Looks like that is all we are going to get. Does that mean indoor minyanim are going to be restricted to 10 per a room? I know my shul put out an allowance for more people per a minyan. 

It means that Murphy is continuing his rush to irrelevancy.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Jellybelly

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Re: Minyan Guidance In Your Community
« Reply #195 on: May 22, 2020, 11:32:16 AM »
It means that Murphy is continuing his rush to irrelevancy.
Are you complaining?

Offline aygart

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Re: Minyan Guidance In Your Community
« Reply #196 on: May 22, 2020, 11:33:44 AM »
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline NTorch

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Re: Minyan Guidance In Your Community
« Reply #197 on: May 22, 2020, 11:41:38 AM »
Great Shmooze from R' Zev Cohen of Adas Yeshurun on reopening shuls (they will not be open this Shabbos, but will not wait the extra 2 weeks either).

The topics are thought provoking - from whether what we do now impacts on the ability to have larger minyanim for Yamim Noraim, to what Kohanim will do for duchanan on Shavuous as there will be no water in the building, to how one puts on tefillin while wearing gloves.


Offline dealfinder11

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Re: Minyan Guidance In Your Community
« Reply #198 on: May 22, 2020, 12:02:52 PM »
It means that Murphy is continuing his rush to irrelevancy.

seems like there is some unspoken understanding about allowing more than he announced but up to a point. Am told there is still a possibility Murphy will release more specific shul guidelines later today. Honestly think all this vagueness is not helping anything. To your point, I think it's just making him more irrelevant.

Offline skyguy918

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Re: Minyan Guidance In Your Community
« Reply #199 on: May 22, 2020, 12:11:23 PM »
Great Shmooze from R' Zev Cohen of Adas Yeshurun on reopening shuls (they will not be open this Shabbos, but will not wait the extra 2 weeks either).

The topics are thought provoking - from whether what we do now impacts on the ability to have larger minyanim for Yamim Noraim, to what Kohanim will do for duchanan on Shavuous as there will be no water in the building, to how one puts on tefillin while wearing gloves.
Why no water in the building? If you're worried about people using the bathroom just cut the water to the toilets. What's the harm in a sink with soap there?