Israel And Ben Gurion COVID-19 Reopening Master Thread

[PlatinumGuy]

Temporarily barring exiting the country isn't really more of an infringement on peoples movement rights than limiting people from leaving the 1KM radius from home.

On Yom Kippur all the borders are closed for 24h (@ExGingi constantly mentions his fantasy that it would be so every shabbos), now it's 14 days.

The courts in Israel have yet to strike down a Covid restriction that I'm aware of.

[ExGingi]

(@ExGingi constantly mentions his fantasy that it would be so every shabbos)

Interesting way of phrasing things. Do you also call ותחזינה עינינו בשובך לציון ברחמים a fantasy?

[PlatinumGuy]

Land borders close as of 6am.

שר הפנים אריה דרעי: ייסגרו מעברי הגבול היבשתיים לכניסת ישראלים וזרים עד ליום 31.1.2021 
 
     
שר הפנים אריה דרעי: ייסגרו מעברי הגבול היבשתיים לכניסת ישראלים וזרים עד ליום 31.1.2021
בהמשך להחלטת הממשלה על סגירת נתב״ג להמראות ולנחיתות, ובמטרה להשלים את המאמצים המשותפים למניעת הרחבת התחלואה, הודיע כעת (יום ד׳) שר הפנים, אריה דרעי, כי מעברי הגבול היבשתיים (נהר הירדן, טאבה, ערבה) ייסגרו לכניסת ישראלים וזרים.

תוקף הצו יהיה החל ממחר, 28.1.2021, בשעה 06:00 ועד ליום ראשון, 31.1.2021.
מעברי הגבול עליהם יחול הצו הם: נהר הירדן, טאבה וערבה.
מעבר אלנבי יישאר פתוח למעבר תושבי יהודה ושומרון.

Interesting way of phrasing things. Do you also call ותחזינה עינינו בשובך לציון ברחמים a fantasy?

Discussing the possibility the state of Israel will close Ben Gurion on Shabbos as if it's as likely as snow coming next week, is a fantasy.

Moshiach coming today is possible, but that's also been the case for the last 700,000 days, so the probability isn't high, unfortunately. 

[ExGingi]

Discussing the possibility the state of Israel will close Ben Gurion on Shabbos as if it's as likely as snow coming next week, is a fantasy.

Moshiach coming today is possible, but that's also been the case for the last 700,000 days, so the probability isn't high, unfortunately.

Since you seem to like to have the last word. I will just leave it at that.

[chinagel]

so the probability isn't high, unfortunately.

Oish.

[AsherO]

Moshiach coming today is possible, but that's also been the case for the last 700,000 days, so the probability isn't high, unfortunately. 

You remind me of this recent discussion on the topic:
https://seforimblog.com/2020/11/rabbi-steinman-and-the-messiah-part-1/
https://seforimblog.com/2020/12/rabbi-steinman-and-the-messiah-part-2/

[PlatinumGuy]

You remind me of this recent discussion on the topic:
https://seforimblog.com/2020/11/rabbi-steinman-and-the-messiah-part-1/
https://seforimblog.com/2020/12/rabbi-steinman-and-the-messiah-part-2/

I will try to phrase it in the most PC way (I'll get flamed anyway), and I know it's going far OT, but I've been wondering lately how much of what appears to some to be a tendency to discount reality (Rebbishe stories, covid precautions, איבה in general) in the Chassidish world stems from the actual derech Chassidus as taught by the Baal Shem Tov (like believing in Nissim and influences other than nature) vs communal herd mentality evolution (like the broader movement to wear B&W and hats and that my Rebbe must be the greatest Rebbe)

[AsherO]

I will try to phrase it in the most PC way (I'll get flamed anyway), and I know it's going far OT, but I've been wondering lately how much of what appears to some to be a tendency to discount reality (Rebbishe stories, covid precautions, איבה in general) in the Chassidish world stems from the actual derech Chassidus as taught by the Baal Shem Tov (like believing in Nissim and influences other than nature) vs communal herd mentality evolution (like the broader movement to wear B&W and hats and that my Rebbe must be the greatest Rebbe)

I’m not taking any positions. I thoroughly enjoyed what I read in those links you’re quoting.

[PlatinumGuy]

I’m not taking any positions. I thoroughly enjoyed what I read in those links you’re quoting.

As did I, thank you.

[AsherO]

I’m not taking any positions. I thoroughly enjoyed what I read in those links you’re quoting.

On second thought, are you suggesting herd-mentality/group-think are more prevalent in the Chassidic community than in the Yeshivish community?

Because it seems you’re implying that, and I think they’re about equal.

[PlatinumGuy]

Aviation update:
 Tonight, the Ministry of Transportation approved a single daily flight that will depart from the country to Frankfurt in the morning and return the same afternoon. Performed by Israir.  Passengers, who have a special exit permit from the Exceptions Committee, will purchase the flight ticket.  Israelis returning to Israel do not need a special permit.  Scheduled to take place on Thursdays, Fridays and Sundays.  Continuation according to government decisions regarding closure and closure of Ben Gurion Airport

On second thought, are you suggesting herd-mentality/group-think are more prevalent in the Chassidic community than in the Yeshivish community?

Because it seems you’re implying that, and I think they’re about equal.

No, I’m questioning whether those elements in chassidim emerged from herd mentality as opposed to hashkafa, I agree there is probably just as much herd mentality in both communities it just brings about different outcomes

[Dan]

How does one contact the "Exceptions Committee?"

[Danlover111]

How does one contact the "Exceptions Committee?"

govforms.gov.il/mw/forms/TisaHarigaEn@mot.gov.il

[AsherO]

No, I’m questioning whether those elements in chassidim emerged from herd mentality as opposed to hashkafa, I agree there is probably just as much herd mentality in both communities it just brings about different outcomes

You believe there's more COVID denial in KJ/Williamsburg/BP than Lakewood?

[ExGingi]

I will try to phrase it in the most PC way (I'll get flamed anyway), and I know it's going far OT, but I've been wondering lately how much of what appears to some to be a tendency to discount reality (Rebbishe stories, covid precautions, איבה in general) in the Chassidish world stems from the actual derech Chassidus as taught by the Baal Shem Tov (like believing in Nissim and influences other than nature)

As for it stemming from the תורת הבעש"ט see:

https://chabadlibrary.org/books/admur/lkus/33/10/1/index.htm or https://beta.hebrewbooks.org/reader/reader.aspx?sfid=15902#p=176&fitMode=fitwidth&hlts=&ocr=

vs communal herd mentality evolution (like the broader movement to wear B&W and hats and that my Rebbe must be the greatest Rebbe)

I cannot speak for any Chosid of any Rebbe, but is that really how they view it? Or is it that he is a great Rebbe and leader of my own derech (or sect)?.

[ExGingi]

govforms.gov.il/mw/forms/TisaHarigaEn@mot.gov.il

https://www.gov.il/BlobFolder/service/special-request-to-fly/he/out%20country%20EN.pdf

[PlatinumGuy]

You believe there's more COVID denial in KJ/Williamsburg/BP than Lakewood?

I think so, but I could be wrong. In Israel the difference appears to be more polar and is contributing to a breakup between the yeshivish & Chassidish parties

How does one contact the "Exceptions Committee?"

I’m guessing foreign citizens will be allowed to leave without a special exemption

[aygart]

I cannot speak for any Chosid of any Rebbe, but is that really how they view it? Or is it that he is a great Rebbe and leader of my own derech (or sect)?.

נשיא הדור?

[aygart]

You believe there's more COVID denial in KJ/Williamsburg/BP than Lakewood?

Yes. In Lakewood it is rare for someone to prevent a person from wearing a mask. I know a few people who wore masks in Willi and were asked if they were preparing for purim.

[PlatinumGuy]

Yes. In Lakewood it is rare for someone to prevent a person from wearing a mask. I know a few people who wore masks in Willi and were asked if they were preparing for purim.

I think the DDF posts are skewed because the arguments are coming more from Lakewood types who are busy posing alternate theories, while the chassidim are more prone to thinking there’s anything to argue about