Israel And Ben Gurion COVID-19 Reopening Master Thread

[AsherO]

NAATs can use many different methods to amplify nucleic acids and detect the virus...

PCR is one such amplification method, or more accurately RT-PCR/PCR-RT

[AsherO]

Sorry. I should have said, you can be denied boarding. Depends on whether the check-in agent cares or looks

Basically YMMV both with check in agent and with whomever might look at it in Israel.

[Ergel]

Basically YMMV both with check in agent and with whomever might look at it in Israel.

No one is looking at it in Israel

[biobook]

Maybe @biobook can translate, but i gleaned this from https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/lab/naats.html


A Nucleic Acid Amplification Test, or NAAT, is a type of viral diagnostic test for SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19. NAATs detect genetic material (nucleic acids).  NAATs for SARS-CoV-2 specifically identify the RNA (ribonucleic acid) sequences that comprise the genetic material of the virus.

NAATs can use many different methods to amplify nucleic acids and detect the virus...

I think @AsherO is the one who's looked into the different tests, I don't knowing anything about this.  But my understanding of the page you referenced is this:  NAAT is the general term, and PCR is one type of NAAT.   So if PCR is the most commonly used NAAT, people might be using the two terms interchangeably.  That seems to be what I see here: 
https://scdhec.gov/covid19/covid-19-testing-type-information

Types of tests

1. Polymerase Chain Reaction (PCR) or Nucleic acid amplification test (NAAT): This type of testing, also called molecular or viral testing, is done by swabbing the nose or mouth or collecting saliva. The test detects a part of the virus’s genetic material. It is currently considered the best test to determine if someone was recently infected with the virus, but people can continue to test positive with this test long after they are no longer contagious and are no longer at risk of spreading the virus.

(And @AsherO posts before I ping...)

[AsherO]

I think @AsherO is the one who's looked into the different tests, I don't knowing anything about this.  But my understanding of the page you referenced is this:  NAAT is the general term, and PCR is one type of NAAT.   So if PCR is the most commonly used NAAT, people might be using the two terms interchangeably.  That seems to be what I see here: 
https://scdhec.gov/covid19/covid-19-testing-type-information

Types of tests

1. Polymerase Chain Reaction (PCR) or Nucleic acid amplification test (NAAT): This type of testing, also called molecular or viral testing, is done by swabbing the nose or mouth or collecting saliva. The test detects a part of the virus’s genetic material. It is currently considered the best test to determine if someone was recently infected with the virus, but people can continue to test positive with this test long after they are no longer contagious and are no longer at risk of spreading the virus.

(And @AsherO posts before I ping...)

I don't think they should be used interchangeably. Even though all PCRs are technically NAAT, the Abbott ID NOW NAAT test uses isothermal amplification, not PCR amplification. The isothermal tests are less sensitive which is an advantage for false positives you referenced (recovered, no longer contagious, patients that still test positive), but a disadvantage for false negatives where someone would test positive via PCR but their infection is missed by (isothermally amplified) NAAT.

That's the extent to which I understand this stuff, which really isn't much at all.

[JlmBoi]

No one is looking at it in Israel

It's a requirement that the airline has to enforce, and it's done by check in (United did documentation verification for some by boarding). In general, Israeli immigration has had no involvement in enforcing any of the restrictions (maybe yes in terms of foreigners entry.. I believe that is done by the MOH people but I'm not sure-I could be wrong on this). I have to say that through all this craziness and flip flopping and lack of planning or any vestige of professionalism, I have gained appreciation for whatever backbone of freedom and rights is still built into this country's law system. Many restrictions that were unlawful were successfully struck down by Bagatz, and the fines relating to them canceled. The hotels don't seem to be coming back. The uninvolvment of immigration in all of this indicated to me that somehow, there are things that can't be messed with. Yes of course the government did its best to abuse its power and do whatever it wanted until the court got to ruling on it but that doesnt last forever and that's already keeping the government in check at least on some level. And that's a hell of a lot better than what it looks like in some other place. Emergency powers and end of story. I have family that barely heard shofar last Rosh Hashana.

Another one of the many reasons I'm so happy to be living here!

[ExGingi]

Sorry. I should have said, you can be denied boarding. Depends on whether the check-in agent cares or looks

Which is why good photoshop labs work best.

[yelped]

No, you register on https://check2fly.co.il/ - enter personal information, make an appointment around the time of your flight arrival and print a QR code- all this saves waiting in line to register for a test
On the check out page you'll see "The discount code for arrivals to Israel is: free1"

Do you have to make a separate account for each family member, or can you make one account and book appointments for all?

[Danlover111]

Do you have to make a separate account for each family member, or can you make one account and book appointments for all?

1 Account.

[Danlover111]

PSA: Make sure that you get the correct wording of your PCR test to leave Israel.
Someone I know was denied boarding last night



1) Document details (section headings) weren't in English
2) Didn't say negative

This test was done at a regular Clallit but they weren't able to print via the website or app thus the secretary printed it.  Seems like she printed the wrong format.

There weren't 4 hours before the flight which would have been enough to get tested at the airport and receive a printed result before boarding.  Oh well, 2 more days before the next flight to her destination.

Is this also a problem jfk-tlv ?

[mijo]

Is this also a problem jfk-tlv ?

Is there a lab in the NYC area that gives results with Hebrew on the report?
The issue was 2 fold - 1) didn't say negative, 2) the destination required a report with everything also in English

[PlatinumGuy]

It's a requirement that the airline has to enforce, and it's done by check in (United did documentation verification for some by boarding). In general, Israeli immigration has had no involvement in enforcing any of the restrictions (maybe yes in terms of foreigners entry.. I believe that is done by the MOH people but I'm not sure-I could be wrong on this). I have to say that through all this craziness and flip flopping and lack of planning or any vestige of professionalism, I have gained appreciation for whatever backbone of freedom and rights is still built into this country's law system. Many restrictions that were unlawful were successfully struck down by Bagatz, and the fines relating to them canceled. The hotels don't seem to be coming back. The uninvolvment of immigration in all of this indicated to me that somehow, there are things that can't be messed with. Yes of course the government did its best to abuse its power and do whatever it wanted until the court got to ruling on it but that doesnt last forever and that's already keeping the government in check at least on some level. And that's a hell of a lot better than what it looks like in some other place. Emergency powers and end of story. I have family that barely heard shofar last Rosh Hashana.

Another one of the many reasons I'm so happy to be living here!

You live in your fantasy dreamworld.

The Israeli courts are more oppressive than the government, not less. They have one of the highest conviction rates in the world, close to 100% of defendants are found guilty.

TLV immigration is very much involved in Covid limitations and will verify quarantine declaration is submitted and entrance/exit is permitted, including cross referencing to the list of people in mandatory quarantine.

There obviously will be a higher threshold by immigration to deport somebody after they land than a minimum wage airline screener being over cautious and denying somebody at departure.

[PlatinumGuy]

Bracelets postponed from this week to April 20, ostensibly because of ‘technical issues’

[jj1000]

You live in your fantasy dreamworld.

The Israeli courts are more oppressive than the government, not less. They have one of the highest conviction rates in the world, close to 100% of defendants are found guilty.

Statistics... Seems it's around 93% (A few countries are 99%+)

BUT, These statistics do not include plea bargains and cases where the charges are withdrawn, which make up the vast majority of criminal cases.

[Ergel]

Also, they just don't know how to read This just isn't what it says

Not seeing any indication that there needs to be a simcha/occasion:

https://embassies.gov.il/new-york/ConsularServices/Pages/COVID19PERMITS.aspx

Chaim vchesed doubled down on their interpretation. I guess they probably have inside info?
https://chaimvchessed.com/current-requirements-for-entering-israel/

[PlatinumGuy]

Statistics... Seems it's around 93% (A few countries are 99%+)

You took that 93% number from Wikipedia that doesn’t cite any source. Israel is closer to 100% and no developed Western country is higher (Some US states are around 50%). The Israeli court system is one of the most oppressive in the world, in large part because Israeli judges and lawyers have 5 out of 9 seats on the committee that appoints judges, so there is little outside oversight. This is a very hot political debate in Israel, which is why somebody probably manipulated the Wikipedia page.


 https://news.walla.co.il/item/1592752
https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4228980,00.html

[PlatinumGuy]

Chaim vchesed doubled down on their interpretation. I guess they probably have inside info?
https://chaimvchessed.com/current-requirements-for-entering-israel/

I’m not sure where you see that in the link. It says you can enter Israel if you have a first degree relative who is Israeli in Israel or for a simcha of a first degree relative in Israel (even if that relative is not Israeli)

[ExGingi]

You took that 93% number from Wikipedia that doesn’t cite any source. Israel is closer to 100% and no developed Western country is higher (Some US states are around 50%). The Israeli court system is one of the most oppressive in the world, in large part because Israeli judges and lawyers have 5 out of 9 seats on the committee that appoints judges, so there is little outside oversight. This is a very hot political debate in Israel, which is why somebody probably manipulated the Wikipedia page.


 https://news.walla.co.il/item/1592752
https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4228980,00.html

I wouldn't use Israeli news media, "the originators of fake news, before fake news was a thing" - to quote @Dan, as a source for anything.

That being said, I don't have any information one way or another, but with high-profile cases falling apart, I am not sure how accurate this is regarding Israeli courts (I am not defending them in any way shape or form). That being said, remembering what was reported when Carlos Ghosn managed to get out of Japan, I would guess that Japan, as a developed country, probably has the highest % of convictions.

As for the Israeli court system, I have no trust in it whatsoever. A family member was recently victimized by an unscrupulous Israeli lawyer, I am still waiting for the Israeli Bar Association's action on information that I submitted to them (first and foremost requesting a refund for fraudulent "legal fees", once I'm done with that I'll try to deal with the ethics and illegalities).

[Ergel]

I’m not sure where you see that in the link. It says you can enter Israel if you have a first degree relative who is Israeli in Israel or for a simcha of a first degree relative in Israel (even if that relative is not Israeli)

Ooops. I misread.

[PlatinumGuy]

high-profile cases falling apart,

Which cases are you talking about? Those that you think are falling apart but the courts are maintaining?

I would guess that Japan, as a developed country, probably has the highest % of

Japan is why I said Israel is higher than any Western developed country