Author Topic: Israel And Ben Gurion COVID-19 Reopening Master Thread  (Read 107961 times)

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Israel Reopening Ben Gurion, Still Closed To Most Foreigners
« Reply #2415 on: April 08, 2021, 09:01:31 AM »
Statistics... Seems it's around 93% (A few countries are 99%+)
You took that 93% number from Wikipedia that doesn’t cite any source. Israel is closer to 100% and no developed Western country is higher (Some US states are around 50%). The Israeli court system is one of the most oppressive in the world, in large part because Israeli judges and lawyers have 5 out of 9 seats on the committee that appoints judges, so there is little outside oversight. This is a very hot political debate in Israel, which is why somebody probably manipulated the Wikipedia page.


 https://news.walla.co.il/item/1592752
https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4228980,00.html
« Last Edit: April 08, 2021, 09:06:25 AM by PlatinumGuy »
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Israel Reopening Ben Gurion, Still Closed To Most Foreigners
« Reply #2416 on: April 08, 2021, 09:05:24 AM »
Chaim vchesed doubled down on their interpretation. I guess they probably have inside info?
https://chaimvchessed.com/current-requirements-for-entering-israel/
I’m not sure where you see that in the link. It says you can enter Israel if you have a first degree relative who is Israeli in Israel or for a simcha of a first degree relative in Israel (even if that relative is not Israeli)
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Israel Reopening Ben Gurion, Still Closed To Most Foreigners
« Reply #2417 on: April 08, 2021, 09:13:49 AM »
You took that 93% number from Wikipedia that doesn’t cite any source. Israel is closer to 100% and no developed Western country is higher (Some US states are around 50%). The Israeli court system is one of the most oppressive in the world, in large part because Israeli judges and lawyers have 5 out of 9 seats on the committee that appoints judges, so there is little outside oversight. This is a very hot political debate in Israel, which is why somebody probably manipulated the Wikipedia page.


 https://news.walla.co.il/item/1592752
https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4228980,00.html

I wouldn't use Israeli news media, "the originators of fake news, before fake news was a thing" - to quote @Dan, as a source for anything.

That being said, I don't have any information one way or another, but with high-profile cases falling apart, I am not sure how accurate this is regarding Israeli courts (I am not defending them in any way shape or form). That being said, remembering what was reported when Carlos Ghosn managed to get out of Japan, I would guess that Japan, as a developed country, probably has the highest % of convictions.

As for the Israeli court system, I have no trust in it whatsoever. A family member was recently victimized by an unscrupulous Israeli lawyer, I am still waiting for the Israeli Bar Association's action on information that I submitted to them (first and foremost requesting a refund for fraudulent "legal fees", once I'm done with that I'll try to deal with the ethics and illegalities).
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Online Ergel

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Re: Israel Reopening Ben Gurion, Still Closed To Most Foreigners
« Reply #2418 on: April 08, 2021, 09:20:13 AM »
I’m not sure where you see that in the link. It says you can enter Israel if you have a first degree relative who is Israeli in Israel or for a simcha of a first degree relative in Israel (even if that relative is not Israeli)
Ooops. I misread.
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Israel Reopening Ben Gurion, Still Closed To Most Foreigners
« Reply #2419 on: April 08, 2021, 09:52:40 AM »
high-profile cases falling apart,
Which cases are you talking about? Those that you think are falling apart but the courts are maintaining?
I would guess that Japan, as a developed country, probably has the highest % of
Japan is why I said Israel is higher than any Western developed country
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline yelped

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Re: Israel Reopening Ben Gurion, Still Closed To Most Foreigners
« Reply #2420 on: April 08, 2021, 12:08:05 PM »
The first degree relative must be living in Israel? So first degree relatives of Israeli citizens living abroad will not be permitted to enter?

Offline Divora M

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Re: Israel Reopening Ben Gurion, Still Closed To Most Foreigners
« Reply #2421 on: April 08, 2021, 01:47:14 PM »
Does any Israeli citizen who lives in the US need to show proof of insurance that covers Covid when flying to TLV?

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Re: Israel Reopening Ben Gurion, Still Closed To Most Foreigners
« Reply #2422 on: April 08, 2021, 01:49:57 PM »
What does it take to make Aliyah? Would it be worth it to get into Israel? Can I do it on my own without my family? Would I be able to come and go freely?

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Israel Reopening Ben Gurion, Still Closed To Most Foreigners
« Reply #2423 on: April 08, 2021, 01:57:27 PM »
What does it take to make Aliyah? Would it be worth it to get into Israel? Can I do it on my own without my family? Would I be able to come and go freely?

 ::) ::) ::)
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline JlmBoi

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Re: Israel Reopening Ben Gurion, Still Closed To Most Foreigners
« Reply #2424 on: April 08, 2021, 02:25:27 PM »
You live in your fantasy dreamworld.

The Israeli courts are more oppressive than the government, not less. They have one of the highest conviction rates in the world, close to 100% of defendants are found guilty.

TLV immigration is very much involved in Covid limitations and will verify quarantine declaration is submitted and entrance/exit is permitted, including cross referencing to the list of people in mandatory quarantine.

There obviously will be a higher threshold by immigration to deport somebody after they land than a minimum wage airline screener being over cautious and denying somebody at departure.
I was referring to the protection of basic freedoms by law, not the justice system. I'm well aware of how crooked the justice system here is. I have friends that were nearly convicted and in one case actually convicted of crimes they didn't commit, with no proof at all, just their word against a police officers.

Re immigration, I was relating my experience. Could be they were involved. When Israelis needed permits or green passport to leave, it was checked at the airport enterance and at check in. Not at passports.

I can't say how much I dislike the government here. I honestly expected them to enforce the restrictions in a much tougher way and I'm happy that the situation here, at any given point, was much better than many other places.
Where did I put my mask 🙃

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Israel Reopening Ben Gurion, Still Closed To Most Foreigners
« Reply #2425 on: April 08, 2021, 04:33:21 PM »
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Israel Reopening Ben Gurion, Still Closed To Most Foreigners
« Reply #2426 on: April 08, 2021, 04:39:36 PM »
Someone not using a good photoshop lab:


(My guess is that this is someone who tried doing it himself and didn't pay attention to details. Though the check at land border is different than at the airport. Land border is by law enforcement/immigration, vs airport which is airline (or contract) employees. Also much different volume.)
« Last Edit: April 08, 2021, 04:42:48 PM by ExGingi »
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

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Re: Israel Reopening Ben Gurion, Still Closed To Most Foreigners
« Reply #2427 on: April 08, 2021, 04:40:27 PM »
The first degree relative must be living in Israel?
Yes

What does it take to make Aliyah?
A great deal of paper work.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline JlmBoi

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Re: Israel Reopening Ben Gurion, Still Closed To Most Foreigners
« Reply #2428 on: April 08, 2021, 05:11:39 PM »
Yes
A great deal of paper work.
I remember opening my first bank account in my home country and then opening my first bank account in Israel. I finally knew to where all those forests had disappeared and what everyone was doing when they said they had to go to the bank and were gone for a week.
Where did I put my mask 🙃

Offline davidd75

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Re: Israel Reopening Ben Gurion, Still Closed To Most Foreigners
« Reply #2429 on: April 08, 2021, 05:20:17 PM »
Can one quarantine in their sisters apt upon arrival?  Sister lives near ramat eshkol
what's the closest/easiest option to get the antibody test in Israel?