Is it time to reopen the country?

[Kobe Bryant]

+1, but flattening the curve includes keeping it flat.

To what end? do you believe our healthcare system will get overwhelmed ?

[yelped]

@aygart pulls the stick back a little and you guys keep bending the stick all the way to the other side.

הערום יעשה בדעת

[aygart]

To what end? do you believe our healthcare system will get overwhelmed ?

It can. It came very close already.

[aygart]

@aygart pulls the stick back a little and you guys keep bending the stick all the way to the other side.

הערום יעשה בדעת

You can find me writing the same pulling back the stick for weeks already.

[Kobe Bryant]

It can. It came very close already.

Must have missed that somehow while observing NY.

[aygart]

Must have missed that somehow while observing NY.

I guess so. You needed to go no further than ddf. Yes it was localized. Such is the nature of contagion. Just look at the threads about MMC and look at the hospital in queens.

[Lurker]

Why does everything need to be politicised?

'Pie in the sky' like most left wing radical agendas.

[Kobe Bryant]

I guess so. You needed to go no further than ddf. Yes it was localized. Such is the nature of contagion. Just look at the threads about MMC and look at the hospital in queens.

If 3 empty field hospitals built by the US Army Corps of Engineers and the USNS Comfort not even reaching 20% capacity in the epicenter of a pandemic can be called "came very close to being overwhelmed", we are just going to have to agree to disagree on the term "not overwhelming our healthcare system".

[Kobe Bryant]

Was waiting for you to BUMP

[aygart]

If 3 empty field hospitals built by the US Army Corps of Engineers and the USNS Comfort not even reaching 20% capacity in the epicenter of a pandemic can be called "came very close to being overwhelmed", we are just going to have to agree to disagree on the term "not overwhelming our healthcare system".

This has been discussed over and over, but their underutilization would have been more for not sending back to nursing homes than anything else and yes Cuomo bungled it. There were most definitely localized overloads.

[avromie7]

+1, but flattening the curve includes keeping it flat.

If that was the goal I'd still be on board. If that was the goal we'd have started phase 1 of 3 (not phase .1 of 42) once there was a clear trend down like a week of consistently lower hospitalizations, it's been 4 weeks since then and we just barely got started. I certainly wasn't under the impression that 5 weeks after the peak we would still be almost completely shut down.

[aygart]

If that was the goal I'd still be on board. If that was the goal we'd have started phase 1 of 3 (not phase .1 of 42) once there was a clear trend down like a week of consistently lower hospitalizations, it's been 4 weeks since then and we just barely got started. I certainly wasn't under the impression that 5 weeks after the peak we would still be almost completely shut down.

Agreed. I was disagreeing with the characterization of them lying to us (his).

[Lurker]

I happen to live in NJ as do many of the other posters here hence the focus on NJ
I don't have issues with the states that are doing things at a reasonable pace

Great, because when you were asked upthread what you meant by opening the country, you said:

Read the title of the thread
I think the questions are pretty self explanatory

You then proceeded to ignore the rest of the country and focus on NJ. That's fine. But that also changes the conversation.

While NJ was very bad new cases and hospitalizations have been dropping rapidly for weeks
We have passed all the metrics Gov Murphy originally gave to start reopening at least a week ago and as of now he has basically opened nothing. Hence the complaints of an indefinite lockdown

No one thinks Murphy is doing a good job. Pretty sure everyone is in agreement on that. Here's my issue with your statement, though. There is no lockdown. Retail is closed. Social gatherings, regardless of purpose, are restricted. Virtually all businesses which are not reliant on a physical retail location are open. As I and the rest of the Floridians can attest, you are free to move about the country. Should the restrictions begin to be lifted? Probably, to various degrees. But when the rhetoric is calling for an end to the lockdown, as if it's an all or nothing proposition, and you include the rest of the country in this generalization of a lockdown, as if we're all experiencing NJ's version of it, you're going to get a lot of pushback.

[Lurker]

Hiding in our house are we?! so let me fill you in, on what we as a country are going through.
The term LOCKDOWN refers to the government mandating that every aspect of our life shut down

Can we stop with the exaggerated rhetoric, please?! Enough! This is exactly why we keep going in circles. Let's start with a simple question: in your opinion, what should the government's role be during a health crisis? You obviously think they have overstepped and need to stop. Draw the line for me.

[aygart]

Can we stop with the exaggerated rhetoric, please?! Enough! This is exactly why we keep going in circles. Let's start with a simple question: in your opinion, what should the government's role be during a health crisis? You obviously think they have overstepped and need to stop. Draw the line for me.

Some are incapable of understanding that just because the government too it too far for too long doesn't mean that we should just have zero restrictions at all.

[ari3]

Great, because when you were asked upthread what you meant by opening the country, you said:

You then proceeded to ignore the rest of the country and focus on NJ. That's fine. But that also changes the conversation.

No one thinks Murphy is doing a good job. Pretty sure everyone is in agreement on that. Here's my issue with your statement, though. There is no lockdown. Retail is closed. Social gatherings, regardless of purpose, are restricted. Virtually all businesses which are not reliant on a physical retail location are open. As I and the rest of the Floridians can attest, you are free to move about the country. Should the restrictions begin to be lifted? Probably, to various degrees. But when the rhetoric is calling for an end to the lockdown, as if it's an all or nothing proposition, and you include the rest of the country in this generalization of a lockdown, as if we're all experiencing NJ's version of it, you're going to get a lot of pushback.

Lockdown is the commonly used term for "Retail is closed. Social gatherings, regardless of purpose, are restricted." and "stay at home order" in case you haven't figured that out yet.

The same problem with NJ is applicable in NYC CA and other places that are still under these lockdown rules.

I am not proposing all or nothing neither are most other people if you would bother to follow the discussion you would see that

[ari3]

Some are incapable of understanding that just because the government too it too far for too long doesn't mean that we should just have zero restrictions at all.

this is coming from someone who complains when people don't get nuances

[Lurker]

Lockdown is the commonly used term for "Retail is closed. Social gatherings, regardless of purpose, are restricted." and "stay at home order" in case you haven't figured that out yet.

this is coming from someone who complains when people don't get nuances

There is nothing nuanced about rhetoric like "we're on lockdown" and "end the lockdown."

The same problem with NJ is applicable in NYC CA and other places that are still under these lockdown rules.

Most of CA is already in either Phase 1 or Phase 2 of opening back up. So we're essentially still just talking about the NY/NJ area, which is widely regarded as the epicenter of the US outbreak and the largest hotspot in the short history of this global pandemic. We're still not talking about the country.

(Anecdotally, 1 infected person in a Phase 2 area of CA went to church recently and exposed over 180 people.)

[avromie7]

Most of CA is already in either Phase 1 or Phase 2 of opening back up.

I haven't been following CA too closely,but I do know the Mayor is talking about extending the lockdown for at least another 3 months.

[Kobe Bryant]

A) Didn't actually answer my question. B) You keep using the term "lockdown." I don't know what this is. To my knowledge, there has been no lockdown in this country due to covid-19. There have been state and local stay-at-home ordinances restricting gatherings, but by and large, people have been able to move around freely. You say lockdown like we're at war and people will get shot if they leave their homes. It's rhetoric like this which exacerbates the debate and the divide.

Can we stop with the exaggerated rhetoric, please?! Enough! This is exactly why we keep going in circles. Let's start with a simple question: in your opinion, what should the government's role be during a health crisis? You obviously think they have overstepped and need to stop. Draw the line for me.

Some are incapable of understanding that just because the government too it too far for too long doesn't mean that we should just have zero restrictions at all.

Talk about nuanced.
I was responding to the false claim that "You keep using the term "lockdown." I don't know what this is. To my knowledge, there has been no lockdown in this country due to covid-19" by describing some of what most of the country has experienced for the better part of 2 months.
No one has called for zero restrictions.