Author Topic: Is it time to reopen the country? (Read 43495 times)

Yard sale · « **Reply #20 on:** May 11, 2020, 10:11:27 AM »

Got it. So the NYT data on excess deaths is only up until around April 19th? That’s a long time age. One thing is clear. The landscape has dramatically shifted from early April. Back then EMS were seeing spikes in at home deaths from cardiac arrest and unknown causes in droves that were not reported as covid in New York City. Nursing homes were disincentivized to report deaths as covid and admit that infection was rampant in their facility. Now nursing homes are mandated to report covid victims. Hospitals are now incentivized to categorize all symptomatic patients as covid even without confirmed diagnosis . Not that I blame them. There is a tremendous amount of federal funding going to the hospitals for Covid patients. Even the small frum healthcare centers are getting close to $1 million just for Covid testing. If I was a hospital CEO I would fire my senior management if they had to return federal dollars instead of maximizing the Covid diagnoses to the maximum legal extent they possibly can. Deaths without known cause around the country are now being investigated for possible Covid. The political will is there. It’s a very different story from early April and likely to be poorly reflected in the numbers that are being touted daily. The CDC count will indeed give a more accurate depiction as numbers are updated.

Lurker · « **Reply #21 on:** May 11, 2020, 10:15:17 AM »

Quote from: Yard sale on May 11, 2020, 10:11:27 AM

Got it. One thing is clear. The landscape has dramatically shifted from early April. Back then EMS were seeing spikes in at home deaths from cardiac arrest and unknown causes in droves that were not reported as covid in New York City. Nursing homes were disincentivized to report deaths as covid and admit that infection was rampant in their facility. Now nursing homes are mandated to report covid victims. Hospitals are now incentivized to categorize all symptomatic patients as covid even without confirmed diagnosis . Not that I blame them. There is a tremendous amount of federal funding going to the hospitals for Covid patients. Even the small frum healthcare centers are getting close to $1 million just for Covid testing. If I was a hospital CEO I would fire my senior management if they had to return federal dollars instead of maximizing the Covid diagnoses to the maximum legal extent they possibly can. Deaths without known cause around the country are now being investigated for possible Covid. The political will is there. It’s a very different story from early April and likely to be poorly reflected in the numbers that are being touted daily. The CDC count will indeed give a more accurate depiction as numbers are updated.

No one's denying that it's messy and money messes it up even more. But when you look at overall deaths, you can't deny the increase, and in significant numbers. That's the stat everyone should be following if they want to get around political BS.

aygart · « **Reply #22 on:** May 11, 2020, 10:22:19 AM »

Quote from: Yard sale on May 11, 2020, 10:11:27 AM

Got it. So the NYT data on excess deaths is only up until around April 19th? That’s a long time age. One thing is clear. The landscape has dramatically shifted from early April. Back then EMS were seeing spikes in at home deaths from cardiac arrest and unknown causes in droves that were not reported as covid in New York City. Nursing homes were disincentivized to report deaths as covid and admit that infection was rampant in their facility. Now nursing homes are mandated to report covid victims. Hospitals are now incentivized to categorize all symptomatic patients as covid even without confirmed diagnosis . Not that I blame them. There is a tremendous amount of federal funding going to the hospitals for Covid patients. Even the small frum healthcare centers are getting close to $1 million just for Covid testing. If I was a hospital CEO I would fire my senior management if they had to return federal dollars instead of maximizing the Covid diagnoses to the maximum legal extent they possibly can. Deaths without known cause around the country are now being investigated for possible Covid. The political will is there. It’s a very different story from early April and likely to be poorly reflected in the numbers that are being touted daily. The CDC count will indeed give a more accurate depiction as numbers are updated.

The Economist article was updated later It does make sense that the drop would be more dratic just as the rise was more dramatic.

S209 · « **Reply #23 on:** May 11, 2020, 10:25:10 AM »

Quote from: Yard sale on May 11, 2020, 10:11:27 AM

Got it. So the NYT data on excess deaths is only up until around April 19th? That’s a long time age. One thing is clear. The landscape has dramatically shifted from early April. Back then EMS were seeing spikes in at home deaths from cardiac arrest and unknown causes in droves that were not reported as covid in New York City. Nursing homes were disincentivized to report deaths as covid and admit that infection was rampant in their facility. Now nursing homes are mandated to report covid victims. Hospitals are now incentivized to categorize all symptomatic patients as covid even without confirmed diagnosis . Not that I blame them. There is a tremendous amount of federal funding going to the hospitals for Covid patients. Even the small frum healthcare centers are getting close to $1 million just for Covid testing. If I was a hospital CEO I would fire my senior management if they had to return federal dollars instead of maximizing the Covid diagnoses to the maximum legal extent they possibly can. Deaths without known cause around the country are now being investigated for possible Covid. The political will is there. It’s a very different story from early April and likely to be poorly reflected in the numbers that are being touted daily. The CDC count will indeed give a more accurate depiction as numbers are updated.

Quote from: skyguy918 on May 10, 2020, 09:02:13 PM

You're not being mechadesh anything. This has been studied pretty well already, and they're continuing to track it.

Here's one example:
https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/04/16/tracking-covid-19-excess-deaths-across-countries

This article is from April 28.

You do raise valid points. However, people are taking these facts (which should give you pause when you see certain numbers) and running with it to promote a position that is just plain false. Excess mortality is a very good indicator of the facts.

grodnoking · « **Reply #24 on:** May 11, 2020, 01:05:51 PM »

Comrade De'Blasio has no plans on every opening up NYC. Time to revolt!

S209 · « **Reply #25 on:** May 11, 2020, 02:16:36 PM »

Quote from: grodnoking on May 11, 2020, 01:05:51 PM

Comrade De'Blasio has no plans on every opening up NYC. Time to revolt!

Why not just recall him, if that’s what the majority feel?

KSMH · « **Reply #26 on:** May 15, 2020, 02:36:18 AM »

https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/nj-gym-owners-plan-to-make-a-stand-defy-gov-murphy-and-reopen/2396542/?amp

zh cohen · « **Reply #27 on:** May 15, 2020, 04:42:59 PM »

Haven't heard much about Georgia in the media recently. I assume that means their reopening is going well?

Lurker · « **Reply #28 on:** May 15, 2020, 04:53:54 PM »

Quote from: zh cohen on May 15, 2020, 04:42:59 PM

Haven't heard much about Georgia in the media recently. I assume that means their reopening is going well?

https://www.ajc.com/news/state--regional/coronavirus-georgia-the-latest-figures/HXfoEnBqHW7i0AJpYArL0J/

Kobe Bryant · « **Reply #29 on:** May 15, 2020, 04:56:08 PM »

Quote from: zh cohen on May 15, 2020, 04:42:59 PM

Haven't heard much about Georgia in the media recently. I assume that means their reopening is going well?

Have you been hearing alot on DeSantis lately?

KSMH · « **Reply #30 on:** May 15, 2020, 06:19:58 PM »

https://twitter.com/TheBelaaz/status/1261416423211048960

Is her point valid?
Do people here agree with her?

Dan · « **Reply #31 on:** May 15, 2020, 06:21:10 PM »

Quote from: zh cohen on May 15, 2020, 04:42:59 PM

Haven't heard much about Georgia in the media recently. I assume that means their reopening is going well?

Erm, #FakeNews

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/15/business/georgia-reopening-3-weeks-later/index.html

Lurker · « **Reply #32 on:** May 15, 2020, 06:24:05 PM »

Quote from: KSMH on May 15, 2020, 06:19:58 PM

https://twitter.com/TheBelaaz/status/1261416423211048960

Is her point valid?
Do people here agree with her?

Very valid.

Kobe Bryant · « **Reply #33 on:** May 15, 2020, 06:29:19 PM »

Quote from: Kobe bryent on May 15, 2020, 04:56:08 PM

Have you been hearing alot on DeSantis lately?

https://www.politico.com/states/florida/story/2020/03/24/dumbest-s-desantis-takes-heat-as-he-goes-his-own-way-on-coronavirus-1268818

https://www.politico.com/newsletters/politico-nightly-coronavirus-special-edition/2020/05/14/florida-man-beats-covid-for-now-489225

KSMH · « **Reply #34 on:** May 17, 2020, 01:44:35 AM »

https://twitter.com/NYCGreenfield/status/1261892409715232769

Yef · « **Reply #35 on:** May 17, 2020, 11:10:30 AM »

https://hamodia.com/2020/05/17/health-secretary-azar-no-spike-coronavirus-places-reopening/

Kobe Bryant · « **Reply #36 on:** May 17, 2020, 01:01:16 PM »

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/17/european-leaders-are-blunt-a-vaccine-wont-come-soon-enough.html

aygart · « **Reply #37 on:** May 17, 2020, 03:09:12 PM »

We keep hearing evidence of earlier and earlier cases of the virus in NYC and other places as early as January. If it took from Jan to Mid March for it to become serious in NYC, how long would a second wave take to show up if there is one?

mgarfin · « **Reply #38 on:** May 17, 2020, 03:12:50 PM »

Quote from: aygart on May 17, 2020, 03:09:12 PM

We keep hearing evidence of earlier and earlier cases of the virus in NYC and other places as early as January. If it took from Jan to Mid March for it to become serious in NYC, how long would a second wave take to show up if there is one?

There is more testing now, No?

Dan · « **Reply #39 on:** May 17, 2020, 03:15:05 PM »

Quote from: aygart on May 17, 2020, 03:09:12 PM

We keep hearing evidence of earlier and earlier cases of the virus in NYC and other places as early as January. If it took from Jan to Mid March for it to become serious in NYC, how long would a second wave take to show up if there is one?

I'd assume it would follow the same timeline.

Started in Wuhan in October and became serious in January.
Started here in January and became serious in March.