Is it time to reopen the country?

[Lurker]

Because they did the right thing and immediately removed infected people from the facility and didn't allow the hospitals to send them back until they were cleared.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/05/coronavirus-crisis-ron-desantis-florida-covid-19-strategy/

Basically Florida shows how many nursing home deaths Cuomo is responsible for.

If you can show me how many nursing home patients were infected vs how many survived in Florida, we can talk.

Btw, Cuomo's policies cost many, many lives of nursing home patients, but they still account for as many as 50% of the deaths nationwide. This isn't just a NY problem.

[zh cohen]

What do we know about Florida's numbers? How many tourists or snowbirds were infected or died? How many dual citizens from Europe or South America? How many illegal aliens?

If they were in Florida when they were tested they are included in Florida's numbers. The only question is if there were people who caught it in Florida but didn't get tested until they got home.

[Kobe Bryant]

If you can show me how many nursing home patients were infected vs how many survived in Florida, we can talk.

Btw, Cuomo's policies cost many, many lives of nursing home patients, but they still account for as many as 50% of the deaths nationwide. This isn't just a NY problem.

That is because he did such a great job across the board, that it evened out at around  50% (we don't actually have the nursing home death numbers for NY).

[Kobe Bryant]

If they were in Florida when they were tested they are included in Florida's numbers. The only question is if there were people who caught it in Florida but didn't get tested until they got home.

And vice versa, possibly many came infected from the tri state area.

[zh cohen]

If you can show me how many nursing home patients were infected vs how many survived in Florida, we can talk.

Are you asking me to find data to support your argument? Show me that there was an unexplained difference in death rates and I will concede that Desantis is feeding the bodies to alligators to cover up the death rate.

Btw, Cuomo's policies cost many, many lives of nursing home patients, but they still account for as many as 50% of the deaths nationwide. This isn't just a NY problem.

NJ, PA and MI (which together with NY account for 2/3 of the US deaths) had the same policy in place.

[Kobe Bryant]

NJ, PA and MI had the same policy in place.

"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others"

https://www.pennlive.com/news/2020/05/health-secretary-rachel-levines-removal-of-mom-from-care-home-amid-epidemic-draws-scrutiny.html

[cholent]

"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others"

https://www.pennlive.com/news/2020/05/health-secretary-rachel-levines-removal-of-mom-from-care-home-amid-epidemic-draws-scrutiny.html

I find this criticism dumbfounding. Of course she should do what's best for her mother. So should whoever has that option. True, others don't have that option, or their specific circumstances mean that taking a parent out of a nursing home will actually expose them to more risk. Why should that mean that her mother, or anyone with better options, should remain in a nursing home now?

[yaakov35]

Are you serious? Its obvious that the most vulnerable population and an extremely high percentage (if not majority) of Covid19 deaths are from nursing homes.

This.

And therefore if @Lurker decides that not enough people died, the numbers must be skewed?!

[avromie7]

If you can show me how many nursing home patients were infected vs how many survived in Florida, we can talk.

Unless I'm misunderstanding, this makes no sense. The point is Florida made the #1 priority to protect the vulnerable, more specifically nursing home residents. A low number of infections in nursing homes was the goal of the policies and it seems to have succeeded.

[Kobe Bryant]

I find this criticism dumbfounding. Of course she should do what's best for her mother. So should whoever has that option. True, others don't have that option, or their specific circumstances mean that taking a parent out of a nursing home will actually expose them to more risk. Why should that mean that her mother, or anyone with better options, should remain in a nursing home now?

I find it dumbfounding that public officials in charge of making public policy put into affect a policy that led to thousands of people dying, but when it came to personal decision making recognized how dangerous and irresponsible it was.

[Lurker]

If you can show me how many nursing home patients were infected vs how many survived in Florida, we can talk.

Btw, Cuomo's policies cost many, many lives of nursing home patients, but they still account for as many as 50% of the deaths nationwide. This isn't just a NY problem.

I found some official numbers for nursing homes. Unless I'm reading it wrong, they only give the numbers for currently infected residents, not a cumulative total of nursing home infections. While I stand by my skepticism of the accuracy of those numbers, I will walk back the extreme way in which I voiced my personal opinions. Below are the numbers, and you can decide for yourselves if the skepticism is completely unfounded. Keep in mind that the last update was on 5/18, although many facilities haven't updated their numbers as recently.

Facilities with infections: 533
Number of infections:

• 1,789 positive residents
• 2,228 positive residents transferred
• 1,986 positive staff

Out of the 533 facilities with infections, around 340 of them reported 5 total infections or fewer.

Facilities with deaths: 211
Total deaths: 844

Some of you are saying that Florida has made it a priority to contain nursing homes and keep them safe. They've been ahead of the curve and have succeeded in their containment. They should be hailed around the world, and their model replicated. On April 18, after a long fight to get the state to release nursing home numbers, the state announced 303 facilities had infections. There were 220 new facilities affected in the last month. That doesn't scream containment. (ETA: Per the governor, on April 18 there were a total of 1,627 cases known to exist among the facilities’ residents and staff. Again, the increase in numbers don't show containment.)

Here's where the tinfoil hat come out.... If a nursing home patient dies, it's considered an expected death. There is no incentive for anyone to do a Covid test on the dead body. The nursing homes only stand to lose by increasing their numbers. The state only stands to lose by increasing their numbers. Ah, but there's a simple solution, right? Look at the overall death rate and look for an increase! Florida hasn't released mortality/morbidity numbers since the last week in February. There's no way to check the numbers.

Is this a crazy conspiracy theory? Yes. I've usually tried to keep my posts more towards facts and logic. But these numbers don't make sense to me, because we haven't seen them anywhere else in the world. When "one of these things is not like the others," it bears more scrutiny than just taking the Governor at his say so.

[zh cohen]

I find this criticism dumbfounding. Of course she should do what's best for her mother. So should whoever has that option. True, others don't have that option, or their specific circumstances mean that taking a parent out of a nursing home will actually expose them to more risk. Why should that mean that her mother, or anyone with better options, should remain in a nursing home now?

Was she honest with the public about the dangers, or did she minimize it?

[aygart]

And therefore if @Lurker decides that not enough people died, the numbers must be skewed?!

While I am totally unfamiliar with the FL numbers and have no opinion on whether or not they were skewed, this is something that @yuneeq was pointing out back in Feb and March. Here are a few.

1st case in Florida? Censored?

https://new.thescoopradioshow.com/concern-in-sarasota-county-after-a-document-on-doctors-hospital-letter-head-advises-the-public-that-a-presumptive-case-has-tested-positive-for-coronavirus/

Don't worry about visiting Florida! People in Florida are immune to Coronavirus, as long as censorship is in place.
 
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/health-care/article240390676.html

Florida on a roll
https://miami.cbslocal.com/2020/03/02/coronavirus-confusion-miami-woman-allegedly-denied-proper-testing/

Censored, indeed. 
If you live in/visiting Florida, do you trust the public officials to tell the truth? Does this censorship make us safer?

Great quote from the original article -  "And if there’s a confirmed case, it will absolutely be reported.” -Surgeon General Scott Rivkees

[zh cohen]

I found some official numbers for nursing homes. Unless I'm reading it wrong, they only give the numbers for currently infected residents, not a cumulative total of nursing home infections. While I stand by my skepticism of the accuracy of those numbers, I will walk back the extreme way in which I voiced my personal opinions. Below are the numbers, and you can decide for yourselves if the skepticism is completely unfounded. Keep in mind that the last update was on 5/18, although many facilities haven't updated their numbers as recently.

Facilities with infections: 533
Number of infections:

• 1,789 positive residents
• 2,228 positive residents transferred
• 1,986 positive staff

Out of the 533 facilities with infections, around 340 of them reported 5 total infections or fewer.

Facilities with deaths: 211
Total deaths: 844

Some of you are saying that Florida has made it a priority to contain nursing homes and keep them safe. They've been ahead of the curve and have succeeded in their containment. They should be hailed around the world, and their model replicated. On April 18, after a long fight to get the state to release nursing home numbers, the state announced 303 facilities had infections. There were 220 new facilities affected in the last month. That doesn't scream containment. (ETA: Per the governor, on April 18 there were a total of 1,627 cases known to exist among the facilities’ residents and staff. Again, the increase in numbers don't show containment.)

Here's where the tinfoil hat come out.... If a nursing home patient dies, it's considered an expected death. There is no incentive for anyone to do a Covid test on the dead body. The nursing homes only stand to lose by increasing their numbers. The state only stands to lose by increasing their numbers. Ah, but there's a simple solution, right? Look at the overall death rate and look for an increase! Florida hasn't released mortality/morbidity numbers since the last week in February. There's no way to check the numbers.

Is this a crazy conspiracy theory? Yes. I've usually tried to keep my posts more towards facts and logic. But these numbers don't make sense to me, because we haven't seen them anywhere else in the world. When "one of these things is not like the others," it bears more scrutiny than just taking the Governor at his say so.

Your numbers are telling me that

1 - Less than 15% of Florida's facilities had any cases.

2 - Facilities that had cases had very few

From point 1 I think we can see that they did a pretty good job keeping it out of facilities

From point 2 I think we can see that in facilities that did have cases they quickly contained it, so it didn't spread to other people in the facility.

Your conspiracy is based on the idea that people died either without first showing symptoms (which doesn't fit with what we know about this disease) or had their symptoms ignored. Either way, by the time they died many more in the facility would have caught it from them.

[Lurker]

Your numbers are telling me that

1 - Less than 15% of Florida's facilities had any cases.

2 - Facilities that had cases had very few

From point 1 I think we can see that they did a pretty good job keeping it out of facilities

From point 2 I think we can see that in facilities that did have cases they quickly contained it, so it didn't spread to other people in the facility.

Your conspiracy is based on the idea that people died either without first showing symptoms (which doesn't fit with what we know about this disease) or had their symptoms ignored. Either way, by the time they died many more in the facility would have caught it from them.

Points taken. Tell me this: if Florida has this thing figured out and is kicking the world's collective butts at prevention, why have the affected facilities gone up 75% and the overall numbers more than tripled between April 18 and May 18, a time during which every other place in the country has seen new cases slow, plateau, or even decrease?

[Lurker]

And therefore if @Lurker decides that not enough people died, the numbers must be skewed?!

Totally, cuz @Kobe bryent always agrees with everything I say.

[ExGingi]

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-05-21/coronavirus-lockdowns-haven-t-proved-they-re-worth-the-havoc

Let me point out one other fact about the pandemic of the late 1960s. Like many coronaviruses, the H3N2 virus came in waves. The last one began in the fall of 1969 and ended in early 1970. Assuming this coronavirus fades in the summer, there is a high likelihood that it will return with a vengeance in the fall and winter. If that happens, are you truly ready to lock down again?

I didn’t think so.

[zh cohen]

Points taken. Tell me this: if Florida has this thing figured out and is kicking the world's collective butts at prevention, why have the affected facilities gone up 75% and the overall numbers more than tripled between April 18 and May 18, a time during which every other place in the country has seen new cases slow, plateau, or even decrease?

https://twitter.com/TheBabylonBee/status/1263530104124321792

[Kobe Bryant]

Totally, cuz @Kobe bryent always agrees with everything I say.

I totally agree with this   

[Kobe Bryant]

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-05-21/coronavirus-lockdowns-haven-t-proved-they-re-worth-the-havoc

I highly doubt that they will be able to implement a Lockdown again in the US.