Is it time to reopen the country?

[S209]

Anyone who doesn't have a clear idea of when the lockdown should end is advocating for indefinite shutdown, although they obviously won't admit it because they realize how ridiculous it is.

The word indefinite technically means without a definitive time frame, but people here are using it to mean a very extended period of time, as in months or a year. People frequently bring up the “till a vaccine” timeframe as a reference.

Is there anyone on this forum who believes the country should be on lockdown right now, even for another day? What does lockdown even mean?

[avromie7]

Is there anyone on this forum who believes the country should be on lockdown right now, even for another day?

There are some people defending the continued lockdown, so I would say yes.

[S209]

There are some people defending the continued lockdown, so I would say yes.

Ok. Count me out of that group. I don’t think the country should be shut down.

[avromie7]

Ok. Count me out of that group. I don’t think the country should be shut down.

So what do you think? How can you defend the continued shutdown while also thinking we shouldn't be shut down?

[aygart]

So what do you think? How can you defend the continued shutdown while also thinking we shouldn't be shut down?

There are some things which are more nuanced than all or nothing. At the end of the day there will be some level of needing to rely on others but there should be very clear guidelines and rules to eliminate the more risky items. There would need to be some level of enforcement so that the people who have no regard for people getting sick don't start the whole thing over again.

For example people like these

I heard of a women in BP knocking on her neighbors door and asking if she can smell her cheese to see if spoiled because she can't smell. Some people just don't get it.

[avromie7]

There are some things which are more nuanced than all or nothing. At the end of the day there will be some level of needing to rely on others but there should be very clear guidelines and rules to eliminate the more risky items. There would need to be some level of enforcement so that the people who have no regard for people getting sick don't start the whole thing over again.

While I advocate for people to make their own decisions, I'm ok with something like this. OTOH defending the continued lockdown is something I vehemently disagree with.

Another issue with the continued lockdown is, at this point most people lost all hope/trust in government handling this properly and many will ignore all regulations.

[avromie7]

For example people like these

Government regulation does nothing to solve this.

[aygart]

Government regulation does nothing to solve this.

Not this case but things people like these and so many like her who are posting all sorts of things hee may do

[avromie7]

Not this case but things people like these and so many like her who are posting all sorts of things hee may do

I don't think there is much the government can do short of bringing in the long guns. At this point most of the compliance is voluntary, as this drags on people will become more and more defiant.

[Kobe Bryant]

Ok. Count me out of that group. I don’t think the country should be shut down.

Question for all the people here that like murdering old folks.
When will it be the time?
What will it take for you to agree that death is bad?
Is the answer morally acceptable?

[Kobe Bryant]

Question for all the people here that think it's not time to open the country yet.
When will it be the time?
What will it take for you to be comfortable with the country opening?
Is the answer realistic?

I've been asking this question for too long.

[aygart]

I don't think there is much the government can do short of bringing in the long guns. At this point most of the compliance is voluntary, as this drags on people will become more and more defiant.

With a psak from no less than R Akiva Eiger they still needed to have the police at the shuls to enforce the needed guidelines.

[aygart]

I've been asking this question for too long.

Ever since you gave up on telling people the virus want with acknowledging.

[ari3]

The word indefinite technically means without a definitive time frame, but people here are using it to mean a very extended period of time, as in months or a year. People frequently bring up the “till a vaccine” timeframe as a reference.

Indefinite means without a defined end, not forever.

Most of those advocating a continued lockdown have no plan for when this will end

As far as the vaccine at best that is many months away. Additionally they have been trying to make a flu vaccine for decades and it is still only 60% effective in a good year and 20% effective in a bad year. No guarantees they will be more successful with this

[Kobe Bryant]

Indefinite means without a defined end, not forever.

Most of those advocating a continued lockdown have no plan for when this will end

As far as the vaccine at best that is many months away. Additionally they have been trying to make a flu vaccine for decades and it is still only 60% effective in a good year and 20% effective in a bad year. No guarantees they will be more successful with this

Well said.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/17/european-leaders-are-blunt-a-vaccine-wont-come-soon-enough.html

[Lurker]

As far as the vaccine at best that is many months away. Additionally they have been trying to make a flu vaccine for decades and it is still only 60% effective in a good year and 20% effective in a bad year. No guarantees they will be more successful with this

Can you please point to anyone, anywhere, here on DDF or a public official, that is advocating for a lockdown until a vaccine is found?

[avromie7]

Can you please point to anyone, anywhere, here on DDF or a public official, that is advocating for a lockdown until a vaccine is found?

(almost) no one is dumb enough to say it. Anyone still pushing lockdown without a serious plan on how to end the lockdown is by definition pushing indefinite lockdown.

[S209]

Indefinite means without a defined end, not forever.

That’s exactly what I said.

Most of those advocating a continued lockdown have no plan for when this will end

Any state that is still under lockdown has literally already posted criteria for ending the lockdown, and has begun easing restrictions. What are you talking about?

As far as the vaccine at best that is many months away. Additionally they have been trying to make a flu vaccine for decades and it is still only 60% effective in a good year and 20% effective in a bad year. No guarantees they will be more successful with this

There are no guarantees of anything but it’s significantly more likely to succeed with a coronavirus that doesn’t mutate much. 60% effective is a tremendous difference anyway. This has been discussed many times.

[S209]

(almost) no one is dumb enough to say it. Anyone still pushing lockdown without a serious plan on how to end the lockdown is by definition pushing indefinite lockdown.

Who is doing that??

[S209]

(almost) no one is dumb enough to say it. Anyone still pushing lockdown without a serious plan on how to end the lockdown is by definition pushing indefinite lockdown.

Everybody needs to come up with a plan that works for everybody. You are making it black and white again. Why do the options need to be indefinite lockdown and complete reopening? Why not a phased, nuanced, cautious reopening starting now in places that are experiencing a decline in cases?