Author Topic: Dropping Antibody Levels  (Read 21340 times)

Offline Afrages6

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Re: Dropping Antibody Levels
« Reply #135 on: May 15, 2020, 03:56:58 PM »
Well it's the best comparison I could think of. Where people were warned and ignored.

I just read that sailors on the ship got infected a second time.

What about that ? What if anti bodies or having had the virus means nothing ? And then you have to remember there are two types of the virus So what if you can get both?

What if we CV have another wave and another 2500 dead Jews? Will you then listen ?
Could you provide a source of this supposed reinfection of sailors?

It would be the first recorded reinfection.

You accuse me of not listening, I listen to doctors. But I will never listen to that unhinged doctor who has been proven wrong time and time again and has lied and tried to ruin peopleís lives just to try and get some attention.

Offline S209

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Re: Dropping Antibody Levels
« Reply #136 on: May 15, 2020, 04:00:03 PM »
Could you provide a source of this supposed reinfection of sailors?

It would be the first recorded reinfection.

You accuse me of not listening, I listen to doctors. But I will never listen to that unhinged doctor who has been proven wrong time and time again and has lied and tried to ruin peopleís lives just to try and get some attention.
Iíd also like to see that, and also proof that it was a reinfection not just continued infection. What did Ditchek get proven wrong about and lie about? He has seemed a bit over the top.
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Offline Afrages6

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Re: Dropping Antibody Levels
« Reply #137 on: May 15, 2020, 04:05:23 PM »
Iíd also like to see that, and also proof that it was a reinfection not just continued infection. What did Ditchek get proven wrong about and lie about? He has seemed a bit over the top.
He lied about how he knows the camps were told they arenít being allowed to reopen and made an insinuation that they are just lying so they could take your money.

I asked a couple doctors today and they told me that itís completely normal for antibody levels to drop after infection.

Offline S209

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Re: Dropping Antibody Levels
« Reply #138 on: May 15, 2020, 04:06:56 PM »
He lied about how he knows the camps were told they arenít being allowed to reopen and made an insinuation that they are just lying so they could take your money.

I asked a couple doctors today and they told me that itís completely normal for antibody levels to drop after infection.
Well, he could have been referring to Sullivan County officials who early on said they wouldnít allow it and one congressman sent a letter to Cuomo. They changed their tune later on.
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Offline S209

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Re: Dropping Antibody Levels
« Reply #139 on: May 15, 2020, 04:07:34 PM »
I asked a couple doctors today and they told me that itís completely normal for antibody levels to drop after infection.

Whatís with everyone having access to so many doctors? You and @chevron both. Jewish, I guess ;)
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Offline Afrages6

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Re: Dropping Antibody Levels
« Reply #140 on: May 15, 2020, 04:10:50 PM »
Well, he could have been referring to Sullivan County officials who early on said they wouldnít allow it and one congressman sent a letter to Cuomo. They changed their tune later on.
He said very clearly that NYS has told the camps they are pulling the permits. He sent out a message trying to clarify but it was very clear that he got caught in a lie.

Offline biobook

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Re: Dropping Antibody Levels
« Reply #141 on: May 15, 2020, 05:07:01 PM »
That graph shows IgG staying in the blood, not dropping to nil as the Dr claimed.
Like I said, hopefully just faulty testing.
This is not my field, but here's how I understand it:
The graph is just meant to show how symptoms and antibodies change over time, but is not showing real data (note the lack of numbers on the y-axis and the Disclaimer below the graph).  The red line shows that IgG decreases after the infection has been fought off, then the line stops in midair. It doesn't necessarily mean that the levels plateau there, just that nobody knows exactly what will happen next.  Like the edge of medieval maps, where dragons and sea-serpents indicated that nobody really knows what's beyond this point.  It IS normal for the body to stop wasting energy producing a specific antibody when it's no longer needed, but it's not yet known how quickly the levels will go down, how far, for how long, etc.

The text on the graph seems a little misleading, where it says "IgG provides long-term immunity".  The ability to fight off future infections does not occur because of the presence of those antibodies in the blood, but rather because of the presence of memory B cells, which "remember" how to produce that particular antibody.   

During the first infection, antibodies are produced to fight the infection, which (in this graph) took about 12 days to reach an effective level, and in the interim, the virus caused disease symptoms. 

In a second infection, the memory B cells pour out IgG antibodies immediately, reaching an effective level so quickly that the virus is neutralized before symptoms can appear.  So IgG IS involved in long-term immunity, but it's not the remaining antibodies from the first infection, but rather similar, newly-produced IgG antibodies.

This is diagrammed on Fig. 2 on this page, don't know how to insert:
https://courses.lumenlearning.com/wm-biology2/chapter/immunological-memory/

So this might be what yeshivabucher expressed in other words:

No your body still retain the ability to spool up again it's just no longer on red alert

Offline chevron

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Re: Dropping Antibody Levels
« Reply #142 on: May 15, 2020, 05:17:59 PM »
Could you provide a source of this supposed reinfection of sailors?

It would be the first recorded reinfection.

You accuse me of not listening, I listen to doctors. But I will never listen to that unhinged doctor who has been proven wrong time and time again and has lied and tried to ruin peopleís lives just to try and get some attention.

https://vosizneias.com/2020/05/15/sailors-on-sidelined-carrier-get-virus-for-second-time/

Offline yeshivabucher

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Re: Dropping Antibody Levels
« Reply #143 on: May 15, 2020, 05:22:16 PM »
https://vosizneias.com/2020/05/15/sailors-on-sidelined-carrier-get-virus-for-second-time/
real great source but either way
Quote
One U.S. official familiar with the situation on the ship said commanders donít know why this is happening but suggested it could be related to questions about testing accuracy. The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss internal deliberations, said that screening has been intensified on the ship. And, anyone who exhibits any flu-like symptoms at all is being tested and removed.

The sailors have been tested using the nasal swab. And in some cases the infection can be at such a low level that it is not detected by the test. Itís not clear whether cases like these are actual relapses, or if people tested negative without really being completely clear of the virus.

Offline jj1000

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Re: Dropping Antibody Levels
« Reply #144 on: May 15, 2020, 05:24:49 PM »
See my 5 step program to your left <--

(Real signature under my location)

Offline Dan

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Re: Dropping Antibody Levels
« Reply #145 on: May 15, 2020, 05:36:01 PM »
This is not my field, but here's how I understand it:
The graph is just meant to show how symptoms and antibodies change over time, but is not showing real data (note the lack of numbers on the y-axis and the Disclaimer below the graph).  The red line shows that IgG decreases after the infection has been fought off, then the line stops in midair. It doesn't necessarily mean that the levels plateau there, just that nobody knows exactly what will happen next.  Like the edge of medieval maps, where dragons and sea-serpents indicated that nobody really knows what's beyond this point.  It IS normal for the body to stop wasting energy producing a specific antibody when it's no longer needed, but it's not yet known how quickly the levels will go down, how far, for how long, etc.

The text on the graph seems a little misleading, where it says "IgG provides long-term immunity".  The ability to fight off future infections does not occur because of the presence of those antibodies in the blood, but rather because of the presence of memory B cells, which "remember" how to produce that particular antibody.   

During the first infection, antibodies are produced to fight the infection, which (in this graph) took about 12 days to reach an effective level, and in the interim, the virus caused disease symptoms. 

In a second infection, the memory B cells pour out IgG antibodies immediately, reaching an effective level so quickly that the virus is neutralized before symptoms can appear.  So IgG IS involved in long-term immunity, but it's not the remaining antibodies from the first infection, but rather similar, newly-produced IgG antibodies.

This is diagrammed on Fig. 2 on this page, don't know how to insert:
https://courses.lumenlearning.com/wm-biology2/chapter/immunological-memory/

So this might be what yeshivabucher expressed in other words:

Thanks!
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline aygart

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Re: Dropping Antibody Levels
« Reply #146 on: May 15, 2020, 06:01:42 PM »
real great source but either way
I always knew you use the best and most up to date medical journals for your research.
https://apnews.com/0cae34376380ab4150002a58bd9934b9

Better?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Dan

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Re: Dropping Antibody Levels
« Reply #147 on: May 15, 2020, 06:05:07 PM »
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline yesitsme

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Re: Dropping Antibody Levels
« Reply #148 on: May 15, 2020, 06:09:26 PM »
if i tested negative for AB means that I'll never know if I'm immune?

Offline Eru Ilķvatar

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Re: Dropping Antibody Levels
« Reply #149 on: May 15, 2020, 06:29:23 PM »
As someone who is learning this stuff right now, I can tell you all that immunology is frighteningly complex, and unless anyone in this thread has expert knowledge in it (and can interpret things like this: https://www.biolegend.com/Files/Images/BioLegend/pathways/ImmPoster.jpg), I suggest that this is all an exercise in futility.