Author Topic: Dropping Antibody Levels  (Read 59812 times)

Offline Afrages6

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Apr 2017
  • Posts: 917
  • Total likes: 401
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Dropping Antibody Levels
« Reply #80 on: May 15, 2020, 10:40:43 AM »
Source? And why would that be the case, if the R0 number is so high (which, if you assume a close to 30% infection rate in NY, it must be).
I meant NYC not NY.

https://arxiv.org/abs/2005.03085

Here is one of the studies. There are more I can find if you want

Offline Lurker

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jul 2019
  • Posts: 5054
  • Total likes: 6390
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
  • Location: As always, silence is NOT an admission of agreement on DDF. It just means that people lack the stamina to keep on arguing with made up "facts", illogical arguments, deceiving statements, nasty and degrading comments, and fuzzy math. - @yelped
Re: Dropping Antibody Levels
« Reply #81 on: May 15, 2020, 10:41:49 AM »
realistic ones?

In most states, yes. In NJ, maybe not so much. And I get many DDFers are in NJ, so the view that this is endless and stupid is somewhat justified, based on how it affects them. But advocating for a complete reopening because you don't like the guidelines presented to you is a gross overreaction with potentially deadly consequences, IMO.
Failing at maintaining Lurker status.

Offline Lurker

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jul 2019
  • Posts: 5054
  • Total likes: 6390
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
  • Location: As always, silence is NOT an admission of agreement on DDF. It just means that people lack the stamina to keep on arguing with made up "facts", illogical arguments, deceiving statements, nasty and degrading comments, and fuzzy math. - @yelped
Re: Dropping Antibody Levels
« Reply #82 on: May 15, 2020, 10:44:28 AM »
It’s not like there aren’t studies that say that 30 percent infection is a very plausible threshold for herd immunity for this virus.

There is not a single decision maker who would stake their reputation on those studies. For every study that shows 30%, there are more that show higher thresholds. You can make life-or-death decisions on minority opinions...
Failing at maintaining Lurker status.

Offline etech0

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 12861
  • Total likes: 3316
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
  • Location: not lakewood
  • Programs: DDF
Re: Dropping Antibody Levels
« Reply #83 on: May 15, 2020, 10:45:03 AM »
But advocating for a complete reopening because you don't like the guidelines presented to you is a gross overreaction with potentially deadly consequences, IMO.
I'm not saying that what people are doing is right. Just explaining why they are fed up.
Workflowy. You won't know what you're missing until you try it.

Online S209

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2016
  • Posts: 7469
  • Total likes: 3930
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Gowns By Shevy
  • Location: Lakewood
  • Programs: Marriott Gold, Star Alliance Gold, Hyatt Explorist, Hertz PC, National EE, Rock Royalty Wild Card, Wyndham Diamond, MLife Gold, Caesars Diamond, Hilton Diamond, Uber VIP, IHG Platinum Elite, ANA Platinum, DDF Lifetime Prez Platinum Elite, AmEx Platinum
Re: Dropping Antibody Levels
« Reply #84 on: May 15, 2020, 10:45:25 AM »
I meant NYC not NY.

https://arxiv.org/abs/2005.03085

Here is one of the studies. There are more I can find if you want
Thanks for sharing, but do you realize you’re picking and choosing? That says that assuming an R0 number of 2.5, then herd immunity can possibly be reached at about 43%. Of course, if NYC is anywhere in the neighborhood of 43%, the R0 number must be closer to 6-7...
Quote from: YitzyS
Quotes in a signature is annoying, as it comes across as an independent post.

Offline Afrages6

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Apr 2017
  • Posts: 917
  • Total likes: 401
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Dropping Antibody Levels
« Reply #85 on: May 15, 2020, 10:45:29 AM »
There is not a single decision maker who would stake their reputation on those studies.
That’s why it’s only my opinion :)

I am not advocating for any action on it.

Offline Afrages6

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Apr 2017
  • Posts: 917
  • Total likes: 401
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Dropping Antibody Levels
« Reply #86 on: May 15, 2020, 10:47:31 AM »
Thanks for sharing, but do you realize you’re picking and choosing? That says that assuming an R0 number of 2.5, then herd immunity can possibly be reached at about 43%. Of course, if NYC is anywhere in the neighborhood of 43%, the R0 number must be closer to 6-7...
Oh my bad, there was a different study that said it was 30 percent not 43. Though I can only find the PDF and don’t know how to upload it while on my phone.

Offline hr555

  • Dansdeals Gold Elite
  • ***
  • Join Date: Jan 2013
  • Posts: 113
  • Total likes: 9
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Dropping Antibody Levels
« Reply #87 on: May 15, 2020, 10:52:39 AM »
https://www.facebook.com/stuart.ditchek/videos/3075132022530051/

At 4 minutes in Dr. Ditchek says they are noticing steady declines in IgG levels for people taking multiple antibody tests. In his case the numbers fell too low to donate more plasma a few weeks after successfully donating.

Does this mean people will start getting reinfected?
Does this mean making a vaccine is going to be harder than we originally hoped for? Or that we'll all need frequent boosters?

IGG levels always decline, but stay at an immune level long-term.
See graph

Offline avromie7

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Feb 2014
  • Posts: 8188
  • Total likes: 2713
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
Re: Dropping Antibody Levels
« Reply #88 on: May 15, 2020, 10:54:45 AM »
Literally no one has advocated to be shut down forever. There have been people advocating for stay-at-home measures to be in place a little longer to give science a little more time to figure out what this virus is.
First of all we have the Mayor of LA said at least another 3 months. Regardless most of them are smarter than to say so publicly, the fact that we're already 2 months in and we're still getting vague answers of when the lockdown will end is proof they want to continue as long as possible. We're way past the point of just a little longer.

Florida is packed with tourists right now. They had to close the beaches in Naples because they were slammed with zero social distancing, and 99% of the people were from out of town. In NY, even with stay-at-home measures, the subways are packed with less than 2/3 of the people wearing masks or gloves. There are stories in nearly every state of gross violations of SD, both with and without stay-at-home orders.

There is a middle ground. Show me Americans who have proved they can actually stay in that middle ground, and I'll jump on board with a partial reopening.
If so many people aren't listening, what is there to gain by continuing the lockdown? It's only hurting the people who are listening or are forced to keep their businesses shut, are we safer when we have thousands of people on the beach but the little mom and pop store can't have a single customer come in wearing gloves and a mask?
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline ilherman

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2013
  • Posts: 8935
  • Total likes: 227
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 35
    • View Profile
  • Location: Brooklyn
Re: Dropping Antibody Levels
« Reply #89 on: May 15, 2020, 10:59:11 AM »
See, when people say things like this it makes me want to lock everything down even more.
Are you from NYC? In my community there definitely is some herd immunity. I'm not paskening if we should open or not based on that. Just saying what I believe the fact is.

In regards to what you're saying that no one wants lock down forever, certainly some people make it sound this way.

For example, Dr Fauci suggesting that it's good idea to continue to never shake anyone's hand. Comments like this is why people in the right are afraid that this is a never ending game..

Oh, congrats to ddf for taking a thread off topic once again...  ;)
You can say what you think when you think what you say.

Offline jj1000

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Posts: 13470
  • Total likes: 6095
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 29367
    • View Profile
  • Location: The value of a forum such as this one is not in that one can post a question and receive an answer, but in that the question has most likely been asked before, and the answer is available to him that will but only use the search function.
  • Programs: 1. Search on google. 2. Search in the right board of DDF with a general word or two. 3. Read the wiki. 4. Read the thread. 5. Ask away.
Re: Dropping Antibody Levels
« Reply #90 on: May 15, 2020, 11:02:52 AM »
IGG levels always decline, but POTENTIALLY stay at an immune level long-term.
See graph
FTFY
See my 5 step program to your left <--

(Real signature under my location)

Offline etech0

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 12861
  • Total likes: 3316
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
  • Location: not lakewood
  • Programs: DDF
Re: Dropping Antibody Levels
« Reply #91 on: May 15, 2020, 11:03:39 AM »
In most states, yes. In NJ, maybe not so much. And I get many DDFers are in NJ, so the view that this is endless and stupid is somewhat justified, based on how it affects them. But advocating for a complete reopening because you don't like the guidelines presented to you is a gross overreaction with potentially deadly consequences, IMO.
https://matzav.com/goodness-schools-open-by-september-cuomo-says-hes-not-there-yet/
Workflowy. You won't know what you're missing until you try it.

Offline Dan

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 50K Diamond Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 67598
  • Total likes: 16909
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16442
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: CLE
  • Programs: UA GS, AA EXP, DL Dirt, Hyatt Glob, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, DD Diamond, Blocked By @NeriaKraus
Re: Dropping Antibody Levels
« Reply #92 on: May 15, 2020, 11:04:34 AM »
IGG levels always decline, but stay at an immune level long-term.
See graph
That graph shows IgG staying in the blood, not dropping to nil as the Dr claimed.
Like I said, hopefully just faulty testing.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline jj1000

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Posts: 13470
  • Total likes: 6095
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 29367
    • View Profile
  • Location: The value of a forum such as this one is not in that one can post a question and receive an answer, but in that the question has most likely been asked before, and the answer is available to him that will but only use the search function.
  • Programs: 1. Search on google. 2. Search in the right board of DDF with a general word or two. 3. Read the wiki. 4. Read the thread. 5. Ask away.
Re: Dropping Antibody Levels
« Reply #93 on: May 15, 2020, 11:06:11 AM »
That graph shows IgG staying in the blood, not dropping to nil as the Dr claimed.
Like I said, hopefully just faulty testing.
He said fell below detectable levels...
See my 5 step program to your left <--

(Real signature under my location)

Offline Dan

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 50K Diamond Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 67598
  • Total likes: 16909
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16442
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: CLE
  • Programs: UA GS, AA EXP, DL Dirt, Hyatt Glob, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, DD Diamond, Blocked By @NeriaKraus
Re: Dropping Antibody Levels
« Reply #94 on: May 15, 2020, 11:06:47 AM »
Are you from NYC? In my community there definitely is some herd immunity. I'm not paskening if we should open or not based on that. Just saying what I believe the fact is.

In regards to what you're saying that no one wants lock down forever, certainly some people make it sound this way.

For example, Dr Fauci suggesting that it's good idea to continue to never shake anyone's hand. Comments like this is why people in the right are afraid that this is a never ending game..

Oh, congrats to ddf for taking a thread off topic once again...  ;)
Wait, not shaking hands means there's no lockdown end game?

Shaking hands has always been a prime method of spreading germs. It's part of our culture, but that doesn't mean it's a sacred cow.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline etech0

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 12861
  • Total likes: 3316
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
  • Location: not lakewood
  • Programs: DDF
Re: Dropping Antibody Levels
« Reply #95 on: May 15, 2020, 11:07:40 AM »
The question is what else will be included in the list of things we'll never go back to.

Workflowy. You won't know what you're missing until you try it.

Online aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 17395
  • Total likes: 14333
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: Dropping Antibody Levels
« Reply #96 on: May 15, 2020, 11:08:11 AM »
Are you from NYC? In my community there definitely is some herd immunity.
Source? I have only seen numbers showing otherwise. Do you have any suppoting numbers?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Lurker

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jul 2019
  • Posts: 5054
  • Total likes: 6390
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
  • Location: As always, silence is NOT an admission of agreement on DDF. It just means that people lack the stamina to keep on arguing with made up "facts", illogical arguments, deceiving statements, nasty and degrading comments, and fuzzy math. - @yelped
Re: Dropping Antibody Levels
« Reply #97 on: May 15, 2020, 11:12:26 AM »
Are you from NYC? In my community there definitely is some herd immunity.

I'm sorry, this is new to me. What is "some" herd immunity?
Failing at maintaining Lurker status.

Offline Lurker

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jul 2019
  • Posts: 5054
  • Total likes: 6390
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
  • Location: As always, silence is NOT an admission of agreement on DDF. It just means that people lack the stamina to keep on arguing with made up "facts", illogical arguments, deceiving statements, nasty and degrading comments, and fuzzy math. - @yelped
Re: Dropping Antibody Levels
« Reply #98 on: May 15, 2020, 11:14:50 AM »
https://matzav.com/goodness-schools-open-by-september-cuomo-says-hes-not-there-yet/

That's schools, in the context of new info about a Kawasaki outbreak. If he would have said anything else, he should have been shot on the spot.
Failing at maintaining Lurker status.

Offline Mootkim

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Sep 2014
  • Posts: 673
  • Total likes: 130
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
  • Location: New York
Re: Dropping Antibody Levels
« Reply #99 on: May 15, 2020, 11:21:23 AM »
And I don't believe it's true that people are running for testing for curiosity as he says. It's primarily so they can donate and the number of donations has been tremendous.
I know plenty of people who are running to take antibody tests for various other reasons and not to donate blood. Some people want to join the rest of the world in Orlando and only feel safe flying if they have antibodies. Many parents want to have their married children over already and drew the line to allow it if they had antibodies. In NY where nursing home employees are required to test twice weekly, they can be exempt from that if they are positive for antibodies.