Should businesses be given liability protection?

[Afrages6]

So we agree to this.

It appears so.

[Lurker]

Anyone voting that businesses should be given liability protection, realize what you are voting for: that the government offer a new program to subsidize businesses that don’t want to use the free market to attract customers in a safe way.

I don't think anyone disagrees that winnable lawsuits will be few and far between here. The question becomes how do you prevent businesses from having to fight the nuisance ones and not have to pay crazy insurance premiums in the process. In this specific instance, where the virus is airborne, the only way to prove gross negligence would be if you saw an employee not wearing a mask, and that employee turns out to have been contagious at that time. If you walk into a place of business where an employee is visibly present without a mask, I'm sorry but that's on you. There are no other possible ways of transmitting this virus right now that are in any way provable to be from a specific business, especially given the incubation period. I just don't see how giving hurting businesses additional peace of mind and saving on insurance premiums is not the right move.

[S209]

Do you see the problem I have with this statement?

Not really. Nothing is changing now, it’s just one more opportunity for people to jump on the litigation train. The government shouldn’t offer blanket liability protection, though I can understand a government subsidized insurance policy *if* the free market can’t come up with one and businesses will be held liable for not following specific rules.

[aygart]

I don't think anyone disagrees that winnable lawsuits will be few and far between here. The question becomes how do you prevent businesses from having to fight the nuisance ones and not have to pay crazy insurance premiums in the process. In this specific instance, where the virus is airborne, the only way to prove gross negligence would be if you saw an employee not wearing a mask, and that employee turns out to have been contagious at that time. If you walk into a place of business where an employee is visibly present without a mask, I'm sorry but that's on you. There are no other possible ways of transmitting this virus right now that are in any way provable to be from a specific business, especially given the incubation period. I just don't see how giving hurting businesses additional peace of mind and saving on insurance premiums is not the right move.

What about beig sued by an employee?

[Lurker]

What about beig sued by an employee?

Make an exception for lawsuits based on findings on violations by the Department of Health or the Department of Labor.

[aygart]

Make an exception for lawsuits based on findings on violations by the Department of Health or the Department of Labor.

THat exepmts the owner when there are no inspectors around.

[Lurker]

THat exepmts the owner when there are no inspectors around.

If an employee sees regs aren't being followed, they can't call it in?

[aygart]

If an employee sees regs aren't being followed, they can't call it in?

So they would be required to have done that in order to sue?

[Lurker]

So they would be required to have done that in order to sue?

IMO, yes. If you didn't care enough to say something before bad things happened, you don't get to sue after they happen.

[aygart]

IMO, yes. If you didn't care enough to say something before bad things happened, you don't get to sue after they happen.

Many blue collars will be scared to do that.

[Lurker]

Many blue collars will be scared to do that.

I get that. But the point is to keep the businesses compliant for public safety. Whistleblowers will help achieve that, especially when that's the only way they can collect damages.

The fact of the matter is, we're claiming lawsuits will incentivize businesses to keep to safety protocols. Without liability protection until now, many businesses have still decided to roll the dice. I guess they may view the chances of an employee getting sick enough to sue as pretty low. There's gotta be another way to make sure businesses stay safe without severely damaging many small business by sticking them with spiking insurance premiums and the burden of nuisance lawsuits.

[CountValentine]

I find it odd the same individuals that called some "murderers" for staying open are all of a sudden bleeding hearts when it comes to businesses. 
 

[Lurker]

I find it odd the same individuals that called some "murderers" for staying open are all of a sudden bleeding hearts when it comes to businesses. 

Because calling for closures 6-8 weeks ago when we knew nothing is at complete odds with calling for personal responsibility if you choose to take risks now that businesses are reopening? Sorry, I don't get it.

And can you please stop with the "individuals?" You're talking about one person, me. I don't get why people hide behind ambiguities. I've said this multiple times: I stand behind what I write here. I have opinions, and they aren't always popular or even correct, but I stand behind them nonetheless. If you have an issue with them, address them head on. Don't hide behind "some people" or "some individuals." (You didn't seem to have that problem in creating "the @Lurker rule.")

Btw, just so we're clear, I called for businesses to get tax credits for reopening safely instead of PPP when the stimulus package came out. I believe government has a role in keeping us safe. I also believe in personal responsibility. I don't see why those have to be conflicting concepts.

I noticed you only ask questions when you feel you have some moral ax you can wield, exposing others' racism, or ignorance, or some other perceived moral deficiency. You never actually entertain other opinions, and resort to name calling, double standards, or any other hallmarks of false arguments when you can't be bothered to argue on the merits of the conflicting ideas (https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=116232.0). You should start a club with Good Ol' Joe, for fake @SS woke men, cuz you ain't black if you don't vote for Joe and you ain't Jewish if you're not from Israel, #amiright? 

[CountValentine]

Easy there skippy. Don't flatter yourself as there is more than one that believes individuals have cost lives with their behavior/decisions (murder) and feel businesses should be exempt.

Now we all have different opinions and that is fine. Believing restaurants that I used as one example should be protected is your opinion and we can discuss that. When I asked about neglect from a car manufacture and your response was the same that is where we have an issue. It is such a wacko belief that discussion will not help.   

[yuneeq]

I don't think anyone disagrees that winnable lawsuits will be few and far between here. The question becomes how do you prevent businesses from having to fight the nuisance ones and not have to pay crazy insurance premiums in the process. In this specific instance, where the virus is airborne, the only way to prove gross negligence would be if you saw an employee not wearing a mask, and that employee turns out to have been contagious at that time. If you walk into a place of business where an employee is visibly present without a mask, I'm sorry but that's on you. There are no other possible ways of transmitting this virus right now that are in any way provable to be from a specific business, especially given the incubation period. I just don't see how giving hurting businesses additional peace of mind and saving on insurance premiums is not the right move.

If the customer is shopping in a truly essential store - grocery, pharmacy, the onus is (or should be) on the business to keep customers safe and stay away from negligence. If you’re truly essential for people’s survival, and therefore need to stay open, you must offer customers the option to shop safely. Can’t have it both ways.

[ari3]

To add spice to this discussion

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/24/us/missouri-hairstylists-coronavirus-clients-trnd/index.html

should this hair salon be responsible that 2 symptomatic hairstylists came to work, they wore masks but they had no business being there at all if they had symptoms

[ari3]

I find it odd the same individuals that called some "murderers" for staying open are all of a sudden bleeding hearts when it comes to businesses. 

most of the individuals that were yelling bloody murder at those staying open are the ones saying keep everyone locked up indefinitely till there is a vaccine or till we die of old age whichever comes first and the ones that were saying take a chill are the ones pushing opening (there may be exceptions but in general I think that will hold up)

[aygart]

most of the individuals that were yelling bloody murder at those staying open are the ones saying keep everyone locked up indefinitely till there is a vaccine or till we die of old age whichever comes first and the ones that were saying take a chill are the ones pushing opening (there may be exceptions but in general I think that will hold up)

I have not yet heard a single person say to "keep everyone locked up indefinitely till there is a vaccine or till we die of old age whichever comes first" or even anything close.

[Lurker]

If the customer is shopping in a truly essential store - grocery, pharmacy, the onus is (or should be) on the business to keep customers safe and stay away from negligence. If you’re truly essential for people’s survival, and therefore need to stay open, you must offer customers the option to shop safely. Can’t have it both ways.

Make an exception for lawsuits based on findings on violations by the Department of Health or the Department of Labor.

If you see an employee or business not following regs, call it in. If you don't, no payout. (Don't forget, we're talking post essential business restrictions, too.) But to penalize every business with higher premiums and nuisance suits which will be crazy hard to fight because the virus is in the air seems to do more harm than good, IMO.

[S209]

most of the individuals that were exhorting caution and were proven right are still saying to be cautious about reopening, and the ones that ignored every doctor and sacrificed hundreds of Korbanos in the process are still ignoring medical advice (there may be exceptions but in general I think that will hold up)

FTFY