So How Was Your Shul This Week?

[Yehuda57]

No one that I know. AT THIS TIME.

Anyone allowing a cleaning lady into their house has already had COVID-19 symptoms.

You're making broad generalizations and assumptions which are quite simply false.

[avromie7]

That’s high and mighty from someone that has been more intellectually dishonest about corona than probably anyone else I’ve spoken to. And you’ll have a difficult time saying the same about me.

Ps. My questions were rhetorical, for the purpose of making a point. Very different than “not looking for answers”. They won’t be answered because they can’t be answered without conceding my point.

This kind of character assasination is despicable.

If you have a point to make you can make it without being condescending and assuming everyone has an agenda.

[ExGingi]

You're making broad generalizations and assumptions which are quite simply false.

Well, you might be able to make that statement regarding my cleaning lady statement, but how can you claim falsehood about my statement that no-one that I know is taking the subway at this time, unless you are aware of someone specific that I know such as one of your uncles or cousins that is taking the subway at this time.

As for the cleaning lady statement and people who had symptoms, I'm referring to the people that daven where I do, either in my back-porch minyan, or in (or next-to) 770.

[Ergel]

Well, you might be able to make that statement regarding my cleaning lady statement, but how can you claim falsehood about my statement that no-one that I know is taking the subway at this time, unless you are aware of someone specific that I know such as one of your uncles or cousins that is taking the subway at this time.

As for the cleaning lady statement and people who had symptoms, I'm referring to the people that daven where I do, either in my back-porch minyan, or in (or next-to) 770.

You investigate every member of every minyan you go to and ensure that he only shops with a mask, doesn't take the subway and doesn't have a cleaning lady unless he has antibodies?

[Sam Finkelstein]

You investigate every member of every minyan you go to and ensure that he only shops with a mask, doesn't take the subway and doesn't have a cleaning lady unless he has antibodies?

Or maybe he talks to his neighbors 

[ExGingi]

You investigate every member of every minyan you go to and ensure that he only shops with a mask, doesn't take the subway and doesn't have a cleaning lady unless he has antibodies?

I'm not going to argue for the sake of argument. I'm not forcing my opinions on you, and will stick to what I find acceptable in my set of circumstances. Do you (or anyone else) have a certain date by which outcomes might prove one way or the other?

[avromie7]

I don't think herd immunity works that way.

-1 herd immunity means the virus can't spread thru the herd unchecked. The herd can be any community, it doesn't need to include the broader society, and it doesnt mean no one can get it. Just like with the measles, there have always been cases coming from out of the country, but as long as that person can't spread it to too many people it can't spread too far.

[aygart]

I'm referring to the people that daven where I do, either in my back-porch minyan, or in (or next-to) 770.

So you are referring to a group of 20 people? If so then yes you may be okay. Let's just call it quarantining together. That is not how I understood your statement. I presumed that it was something which would apply to the general public. Apparently I was mistaken.

[aygart]

-1 herd immunity means the virus can't spread thru the herd unchecked. The herd can be any community, it doesn't need to include the broader society, and it doesnt mean no one can get it. Just like with the measles, there have always been cases coming from out of the country, but as long as that person can't spread it to too many people it can't spread too far.

That is because the contact with the few coming in from outside will be stopped before reaching epidemic proportions. That is great when you are dealing with a country etc. but when you are dealing with a small group that has contact with the outside then the one person who catches it and spreds it in one fell swoop to half of those not immune is a problem.

[EliJelly]

That is because the contact with the few coming in from outside will be stopped before reaching epidemic proportions. That is great when you are dealing with a country etc. but when you are dealing with a small group that has contact with the outside then the one person who catches it and spreds it in one fell swoop to half of those not immune is a problem.

And how do you make sense with facts on the ground? Is there a date to be reached without a spike to prove that there's herd immunity? We're quite a few weeks in.

[ExGingi]

So you are referring to a group of 20 people? If so then yes you may be okay. Let's just call it quarantining together. That is not how I understood your statement. I presumed that it was something which would apply to the general public. Apparently I was mistaken.

My back-porch minyan is around 20 at peak. Outside 770 is probably more than 200, but mostly spread out. Right next to the doors (to be able to hear Krias Hatorah) is probably 30-40 with no distancing and maybe a handful of masks.

[ExGingi]

That is because the contact with the few coming in from outside will be stopped before reaching epidemic proportions. That is great when you are dealing with a country etc. but when you are dealing with a small group that has contact with the outside then the one person who catches it and spreds it in one fell swoop to half of those not immune is a problem.

These "small groups" are much more isolated from the outside than any country is. While אין הקומץ משביע את הארי ואין הבור מתמלא מחוליתו generally applies to לכו והתפרנסו זה מזה, there's quite a lot that is done without interaction with the outside world. Definitely without physical interaction with the outside world.

[aygart]

And how do you make sense with facts on the ground? Is there a date to be reached without a spike to prove that there's herd immunity? We're quite a few weeks in.

ow many weeks from when it was first introduced did we begin seeing the first spike?

[aygart]

My back-porch minyan is around 20 at peak. Outside 770 is probably more than 200, but mostly spread out. Right next to the doors (to be able to hear Krias Hatorah) is probably 30-40 with no distancing and maybe a handful of masks.

OUtdoors is in general much better anyhow. But yes, such a small group that remains isolated can be its own herd.

[EliJelly]

ow many weeks from when it was first introduced did we begin seeing the first spike?

Accepted quarantine period worldwide is still just two weeks. 

[Yehuda57]

Well, you might be able to make that statement regarding my cleaning lady statement, but how can you claim falsehood about my statement that no-one that I know is taking the subway at this time, unless you are aware of someone specific that I know such as one of your uncles or cousins that is taking the subway at this time.

As for the cleaning lady statement and people who had symptoms, I'm referring to the people that daven where I do, either in my back-porch minyan, or in (or next-to) 770.

Qualifying your statement to "that I know" is so limiting as to deem it worthless for the purposes of this conversation. It's quite obvious no one was discussing your immidiate neighbors.

[Yehuda57]

Well, you might be able to make that statement regarding my cleaning lady statement, but how can you claim falsehood about my statement that no-one that I know is taking the subway at this time, unless you are aware of someone specific that I know such as one of your uncles or cousins that is taking the subway at this time.

As for the cleaning lady statement and people who had symptoms, I'm referring to the people that daven where I do, either in my back-porch minyan, or in (or next-to) 770.

And you can say with confidence that no one davenning near 770 is using the subway? Come on.

[aygart]

Accepted quarantine period worldwide is still just two weeks. 

Right and therefore?

[moko]

I really don't get the turning away people thing unless you have less than 20 people in your shul.
The shul I daven it is accommodating everyone who wants with multiple minyanim indoor and outdoors. Making sure there are extra masks and plenty of hand sanitizer in case someone didn't bring rather than turn them away. Spent thousands of dollars purchasing a heavy duty tent (two walls off) to ensure outdoor minyanim even when it's raining.
It's become quite the hotspot in BOS and I'm confident the shul will gain regular mispallim who continue after COVID19.

[EliJelly]

Right and therefore?

So that's what they still believe to be the incubation period. We're way way beyond that.