Does “Black Privilege” exist

[yesitsme]

Making the national conversation about privilege is missing the boat. I don’t think it’s so “black and white”- pun intended. Sure there is white privilege. Sure there’s black privilege. But compared to 30 years ago being successful has a lot more to do with personal choices and the consequences of those choices. Everyone has the ability to make choices in life  and those choices will have an impact. Are there an outsized number of black young males in prison? Yes. Unfortunately there is a high incidence of crime in that demographic. When I take my late night jog will I do it in the Ghetto? No, I don’t want to get my head bashed in. I’ll do it in the suburban area. Remember the GPS app? https://www.npr.org/2012/01/25/145337346/this-app-was-made-for-walking-but-is-it-racist

There’s a reason that there are a lack of normal retail and grocery options in those neighborhoods. There is a high incidence of shoplifting and crime so it doesn’t make sense to open from a business standpoint.

The NYC public school system isn’t doing anyone any favors by not disciplining African American kids who misbehave for fear of going over their quota and appearing to be biased against African Americans. They are teaching these children that actions don’t have consequences, and setting them up for failure later in life. New York City’s reluctance to crack down on quality of life issues in minority neighborhoods it’s only hurting the residence of those neighborhoods. These, and other well meaning liberal policies are contributing to the continued issues that African Americans face.

And there are so many other areas where privilege is blamed but in reality putting in an effort to educate oneself and acquire necessary tools are the real issue. Are there Judges that are biased against minorities? Perhaps. But by and large that is not the issue. Judges are trained to gauge the veracity of those in court based on visual and body cues.  If you have a put-together individual who articulately states his claim and then you have an individual who is not presentable for court and mumbles half sentences without making eye contact it’s obvious whose words the judge is going to give more weight to. And those are tools that can be acquired.

I firmly believe that in 2020 an African American who applies himself, dresses presentably, stays clean of drugs and alcohol and has a drive to succeed, will achieve upward mobility regardless of IQ. And a white with an IQ of 100 who doesn't will end up in a homeless encampment in SF. It’s not politically correct to attribute the issues the African American community is facing to anything other than white privilege, but until those factors are acknowledged, all of the lip service to white privilege, all of the affirmative action programs, all of the bias sensitization in the world will not move things forward.

One thousand Percent True

[Yard sale]

BTW, Asian Americans are falsely portrayed as having far higher IQs than whites. The difference is really very small.
https://psychology.wikia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence

[CountValentine]

One thousand Percent True

...as is racism.

[aygart]

I firmly believe that in 2020 an African American who applies himself, dresses presentably, stays clean of drugs and alcohol and has a drive to succeed, will achieve upward mobility regardless of IQ. And a white with an IQ of 100 who doesn't will end up in a homeless encampment in SF. It’s not politically correct to attribute the issues the African American community is facing to anything other than white privilege, but until those factors are acknowledged, all of the lip service to white privilege, all of the affirmative action programs, all of the bias sensitization in the world will not move things forward.

Do you think the amount a black teen growing up in the hood needs to apply himself is the same as the amount a teen WASP does?

[yesitsme]

...as is racism.

that belongs in the lets discuss it thread

[Yard sale]

Do you think the amount a black teen growing up in the hood needs to apply himself is the same as the amount a teen WASP does?

It is harder to go against the grain, no question about it. Much of that culture is due to the bad choices of a collective group of individuals. And there ought to be (politicaly difficult) efforts made to change that culture. Much of the issue is exacerbated by liberal policies of the last few decades. But to portray the entire picture as a white privilege problem is disingenuous when bad choices are a much larger factor. When that individual walks in to a job interview or applies for a civic job if he has applied himself he will succeed as much as the white fellow.

And when he does apply himself he may find his path forward made easier by the multitude of programs and funding specifically made available to African Americans. That is not the picture being portrayed.

[aygart]

It is harder to go against the grain, no question about it. Much of that culture is due to the bad choices of a collective group of individuals. And there ought to be (politicaly difficult) efforts made to change that culture. Much of the issue is exacerbated by liberal policies of the last few decades. But to portray the entire picture as a white privilege problem is disingenuous when bad choices are a much larger factor. When that individual walks in to a job interview or applies for a civic job if he has applied himself he will succeed as much as the white fellow.

And when he does apply himself he may find his path forward made easier by the multitude of programs and funding specifically made available to African Americans. That is not the picture being portrayed.

It is more than just going against the grain. Yes some of the problem is from the "community leaders" and poor policy-isn't that a white priveledge that they don't have those poor policies holding them back? Why does whose fault it is change whether there is privilege?

[CountValentine]

It is harder to go against the grain, no question about it. Much of that culture is due to the bad choices of a collective group of individuals. And there ought to be (politicaly difficult) efforts made to change that culture. Much of the issue is exacerbated by liberal policies of the last few decades. But to portray the entire picture as a white privilege problem is disingenuous when bad choices are a much larger factor. When that individual walks in to a job interview or applies for a civic job if he has applied himself he will succeed as much as the white fellow.

And when he does apply himself he may find his path forward made easier by the multitude of programs and funding specifically made available to African Americans. That is not the picture being portrayed.

% wise would you say more blacks work in the private or public sector?

[CountValentine]

Do you think the amount a black teen growing up in the hood needs to apply himself is the same as the amount a teen WASP does?

Not a chance. Anyone who does not understand that does not understand the problem.

[Yard sale]

Not a chance. Anyone who does not understand that does not understand the problem.

Oh I understand the problem. I grew up almost in middle of the ghetto. Both of my grandparents taught for decades in the NYC public school system in predominantly black schools. My grandmother earned the respect of these kids. She’d be walking on the street and older black teens would greet her excitedly and wave to her, remembering her from their early elementary school days. The kids in her class were these cute little kids excited about learning, but as they went through the system, the NYC DOE failed them, and  the liberal social policies that encouraged destructive and negative behavior, and disincentivised  personal drive and responsibility, civic pride, and a stable family unit, destroyed these kids, and the influences of the hood won. (Not all of them; some had the determination to shape their own future and succeeded. )

That doesn’t mean personal choice doesn’t exist. We all know people that grew up under extremely adversarial circumstances but made the right choices and succeeded in life. There has to be a recognition that the individual is the only one with the ability to chart his future, at the same time addressing the core issues rather than telling every individual African American “it’s not up to you, it’s all white privilege.

[aygart]

Oh I understand the problem. I grew up almost in middle of the ghetto. Both of my grandparents taught for decades in the NYC public school system in predominantly black schools. My grandmother earned the respect of these kids. She’d be walking on the street and older black teens would greet her excitedly and wave to her, remembering her from their early elementary school days. The kids in her class were these cute little kids excited about learning, but as they went through the system, the NYC DOE failed them, and  the liberal social policies that encouraged destructive and negative behavior, and disincentivised  personal drive and responsibility, civic pride, and a stable family unit, destroyed these kids, and the influences of the hood won. (Not all of them; some had the determination to shape their own future and succeeded. )

That doesn’t mean personal choice doesn’t exist. We all know people that grew up under extremely adversarial circumstances but made the right choices and succeeded in life. There has to be a recognition that the individual is the only one with the ability to chart his future, at the same time addressing the core issues rather than telling every individual African American “it’s not up to you, it’s all white privilege.

You just gave a pretty good description of them being disadvantaged and how there is white privelege. All you are discussing is what the solution is.

[CountValentine]

Oh I understand the problem. I grew up almost in middle of the ghetto. Both of my grandparents taught for decades in the NYC public school system in predominantly black schools. My grandmother earned the respect of these kids. She’d be walking on the street and older black teens would greet her excitedly and wave to her, remembering her from their early elementary school days. The kids in her class were these cute little kids excited about learning, but as they went through the system, the NYC DOE failed them, and  the liberal social policies that encouraged destructive and negative behavior, and disincentivised  personal drive and responsibility, civic pride, and a stable family unit, destroyed these kids, and the influences of the hood won. (Not all of them; some had the determination to shape their own future and succeeded. )

That doesn’t mean personal choice doesn’t exist. We all know people that grew up under extremely adversarial circumstances but made the right choices and succeeded in life. There has to be a recognition that the individual is the only one with the ability to chart his future, at the same time addressing the core issues rather than telling every individual African American “it’s not up to you, it’s all white privilege.

A kid does not get to choose where he grows up, what school he goes to, what gangs are in his neighborhood, what drugs are sold and a hundred other things. This all has a tremendous effect on them. We are humans not robots. Now as they get older they make their own choices. The point is they never had the same opportunities. They can and do succeed despite all of the extra obstacles in front of them.

[aygart]

They can and do succeed despite all of the extra obstacles in front of them.

I do business with some who have grown up in inner cities with absentee parents yet had the drive to pull themselves out of the trash and are successful. I have tremendous respect for them.

[moko]

I do business with some who have grown up in inner cities with absentee parents yet had the drive to pull themselves out of the trash and are successful. I have tremendous respect for them.

Lakewood & Brooklyn? 

[aygart]

Lakewood & Brooklyn? 

Not the ones I am referring to, but I accept your premise.

[Redbull3]

IMO no it doesn't exist. The system is rigged against them. There are disadvantages from being born into poverty (which is the biggest risk factor for everything bad from drugs, incarceration etc) regardless of race and then there are further disadvantages from facing racial discrimination for skin color that further contribute to the cycle.
In my opinion another underrated factor is the way we all geographically segregate ourselves. Like Jews like to live together in Lakewood and rich white people like to live together in Malibu and Chinese people like to live in Flushing and on and on. There are some more tangible consequences of this like huge variations in property taxes leading to extremely varied quality of local public schools, and then less tangible ones like the examples children are surrounded with, community values and trauma (or lack of trauma) they have to deal with from a young age.

[Yard sale]

You just gave a pretty good description of them being disadvantaged and how there is white privelege. All you are discussing is what the solution is.

If that is how you are to defining white privilege I get that. But then the anger ought to be directed inward at their own communities as well as those setting policy for their communities, most often liberal politicians. That is hardly who are they are demonstrating against. And there is no mention of personal responsibility or determination. The BLM white privilege anger does not appear to be focused on the actual problem.

[aygart]

If that is how you are to defining white privilege I get that. But then the anger ought to be directed inward at their own communities as well as those setting policy for their communities, most often liberal politicians. That is hardly who are they are demonstrating against. And there is no mention of personal responsibility or determination. The BLM white privilege anger does not appear to be focused on the actual problem.

We are in agreement about that. It is difficult to see the problems from the inside and there are enough legitimate issue for them to see on the outside that it becomes easy to blame it on.

[Yard sale]

I do business with some who have grown up in inner cities with absentee parents yet had the drive to pull themselves out of the trash and are successful. I have tremendous respect for them.

I once met a guy in the Catskills who had a beautiful place. He told me he had been living in Harlem until his nephew was gunned down in a gang altercation. After some introspection he realized that he had to get out of there and he built himself a life in suburbia. I had tremendous admiration. How many of us would find it easy to do that.

[Toasted]

A kid does not get to choose where he grows up, what school he goes to, what gangs are in his neighborhood, what drugs are sold and a hundred other things. This all has a tremendous effect on them. We are humans not robots. Now as they get older they make their own choices. The point is they never had the same opportunities. They can and do succeed despite all of the extra obstacles in front of them.

Now that the problem is well defined, which of the following helps the black community SOLVE the problem?
A) Focus on their victimhood.
B) Highlight/empower/parade the folks in your last sentence so they become the rule not the exception.