The current state of COVID-19 in Israel

[AsherO]

They seem to be generally a good thing. If what we know now was pitched as לכתחילה I think most peope would still take it. What's disturbing is the גאוה that science has to say "I know", be proven wrong, and the next day continue saying the same "I know".

I don’t follow. They developed a vaccine against a virus sequenced in mid-January 2020, it was phase 3 tested within a year, and started being administered under EUA. The fact that it’s not as effective against a variant first identified in or around February 2021 doesn’t mean they didn’t achieve something impressive. We’re fortunate that it’s pretty effective against hospitalizations for Delta, hopefully the data will keep confirming high efficacy for severe cases and death, even with the Delta variant.

[JlmBoi]

Why?
How does your "risk group" change as new variants of the virus appear?

Why? Because I want to and I don't see it as making a difference to anyone in the current reality.

Risk group change? Not sure where you got this from. It doesn't. I was commenting on the געטשקע attitide to the vaccine.

[biobook]

Why? Because I want to and I don't see it as making a difference to anyone in the current reality.

Okay. I have no response to that.   

Risk group change? Not sure where you got this from. It doesn't. I was commenting on the געטשקע attitide to the vaccine.

Where did you get that from?  How do you know?

[JlmBoi]

I don’t follow. They developed a vaccine against a virus sequenced in mid-January 2020, it was phase 3 tested within a year, and started being administered under EUA. The fact that it’s not as effective against a variant first identified in or around February 2021 doesn’t mean they didn’t achieve something impressive. We’re fortunate that it’s pretty effective against hospitalizations for Delta, hopefully the data will keep confirming high efficacy for severe cases and death, even with the Delta variant.

I agree with everything you say. The way they got everyone to take the vaccine is by saying it's 100% safe and effective and it will solve everything. That's not true. I think it will still be a huge factor in how this goes away. I see so many people taking every new "discovery" so seriously. It's like their in jail waiting for a pardon. Life didn't stop. It changed, and now has new risks to it. Everyone should make their assessment and proceed living as they see best for them. Peope are being intimidated into submission.

[JlmBoi]

How do you know?

Ur saying one should vaccinate because he might be in a risk group of a future variant?

[TimT]

and it will solve everything.

Link ?

[JlmBoi]

Link ?

Every Bibi speech. יחד ננצח את הקורונה. The whole we are going to fight it and win mindset. Need I go on?

I get it that most people don't see it like this... It upsets me to see people that were fairly stable being taken on a roller coaster. It doesn't have to be so dramatic.

[biobook]

Ur saying one should vaccinate because he might be in a risk group of a future variant?

Mostly I'm saying one shouldn't be so self-confident and smug.  And one shouldn't forget about the כלל.

Could a future variant target a different age group?  Could be.  Happened with the flu, in 1918.

[TimT]

Every Bibi speech. יחד ננצח את הקורונה. The whole we are going to fight it and win mindset. Need I go on?

I get it that most people don't see it like this... It upsets me to see people that were fairly stable being taken on a roller coaster. It doesn't have to be so dramatic.

He said it would solve any future issues ?

[JlmBoi]

Mostly I'm saying one shouldn't be so self-confident and smug.  And one shouldn't forget about the כלל.

Could a future variant target a different age group?  Could be.  Happened with the flu, in 1918.

Fair enough.

He said it would solve any future issues ?

Not sure what you are trying to demonstrate. It's not clear that they capitalized by selling it as a way out? Of course noone promised anything and everyone acted on their own accord. But if science wasnt sold as absolute then people would take a second to think. It's easy for a government to cover its own immaturity and incompetence by pushing the first possible out. If the pandemic was managed like an outside consultant does risk management for a company then the government would be fulfilling its role. It's not specific to Israel. Noone managed it with any level of competence.

[TimT]

It's not clear that they capitalized by selling it as a way out?

Was the mass decline in hospitalizations & new infections not due to the vaccine ? As more & more took it the numbers went way down & life was able to get back to normal. No ?

[JlmBoi]

Was the mass decline in hospitalizations & new infections not due to the vaccine ? As more & more took it the numbers went way down & life was able to get back to normal. No ?

I'm not arguing with the facts.

[AsherO]

I agree with everything you say. The way they got everyone to take the vaccine is by saying it's 100% safe and effective and it will solve everything. That's not true. I think it will still be a huge factor in how this goes away. I see so many people taking every new "discovery" so seriously. It's like their in jail waiting for a pardon. Life didn't stop. It changed, and now has new risks to it. Everyone should make their assessment and proceed living as they see best for them. Peope are being intimidated into submission.

Who every claimed the vaccine is 100% effective?

Your attitude is a part of the problem. COVID is a collective issue where the behavior of the society effects everyone, a fraction of troublemakers can ruin it for everyone, like an idiot who spread Delta on Israel early by arriving from India and going to a concert.

I’m usually all for civil liberties (and still are, COVID shouldn’t be an excuse for the government to control people), but saying everyone should make their own choices and using that as an excuse to behave irresponsibly is going to prolong this for everyone.

[JlmBoi]

Who every claimed the vaccine is 100% effective?

Your attitude is a part of the problem. COVID is a collective issue where the behavior of the society effects everyone, a fraction of troublemakers can ruin it for everyone, like an idiot who spread Delta on Israel early by arriving from India and going to a concert.

I’m usually all for civil liberties (and still are, COVID shouldn’t be an excuse for the government to control people), but saying everyone should make their own choices and using that as an excuse to behave irresponsibly is going to prolong this for everyone.

I'm calling out a very specific government strategy that sold the virus a certain way and then sold the vaccine as a cure. I agree with most of what you said. I don't know why you think I'm saying people should be irresponsible. Maybe we have different definitions of what that means למעשה. I don't think what I'm doing is harming anyone or anything and I'm not advocating for any specific actions. I'm upset people can't see through the government incompetence. They bought the panic and now they are buying the anti anxiety vaccination instead of making rational decisions.

[AsherO]

I'm calling out a very specific government strategy that sold the virus a certain way and then sold the vaccine as a cure. I agree with most of what you said. I don't know why you think I'm saying people should be irresponsible. Maybe we have different definitions of what that means למעשה. I don't think what I'm doing is harming anyone or anything and I'm not advocating for any specific actions. I'm upset people can't see through the government incompetence. They bought the panic and now they are buying the anti anxiety vaccination instead of making rational decisions.

Welcome to public policy. Other than perhaps Trump, nobody billed the vaccine as a cure, it’s a partial solution, as are COVID restrictions. I don’t trust every DDFer who says what you’re saying, some certainly do flaunt the rules, extrapolate that to broader society and that’s the reason the government has to be more restrictive that you’d ideally deem necessary.

To say it differently, I agree with you the government can be incompetent, but people can be just as incompetent, maybe more so. Hold those other people to the same standard of competence you’re holding the government to.

[Iz]

I'm calling out a very specific government strategy that sold the virus a certain way and then sold the vaccine as a cure. I'm upset people can't see through the government incompetence. They bought the panic and now they are buying the anti anxiety vaccination instead of making rational decisions.

Do you feel that this is an Israel issue, or would you say the same re USA?

[Iz]

Hold those other people to the same standard of competence you’re holding the government to.

Anyone who has the same power that the government has should be held to the same standard.

[JlmBoi]

Hold those other people to the same standard of competence you’re holding the government to.

I think that's not how government should work. They should be holding themselves to the highest standard. People are seemingly unaware of how far government is from what it should be. If governments were judged as public companies their performance reports would be atrocious. That's reality, act accordingly. That doesn't mean flaunt rules, it does mean don't automatically buy the level of panic being disseminated.

[JlmBoi]

Do you feel that this is an Israel issue, or would you say the same re USA?

I think it's a global issue. I'm more aware of the specifics in Israel. The panic spreading is worldwide. People I know from all around the world have put their emotional wellbeing in the hands of political policy.

[TimT]

I'm calling out a very specific government strategy that sold the virus a certain way and then sold the vaccine as a cure

The government didn’t, reality did.