The current state of COVID-19 in Israel

[JlmBoi]

The government didn’t, reality did.

Panic is not a reality, it's a incompetent/immature reaction to a challenging reality.

[TimT]

Panic is not a reality, it's a incompetent/immature reaction.

The panic didn’t begin with the government warnings, it began when the hospitals started filling up & chevra kadisha were working overtime.

[JlmBoi]

The panic didn’t begin with the government warnings, it began when the hospitals started filling up & chevra kadisha were working overtime.

The governments should be calming people not spreading fear and panic to cover for the incompetence and irrationality of many of their actions. Any voices that didn't fit the narrative where put down in any way possible. There was no open discussion or debate. Everything was done in a very authoritarian way. If a government can't at least say "we did things the wrong way but we had to" they can't expect the peoples trust.

[TimT]

People seem to forget that the health system was collapsing at the height of it. Hospitals overflowing, dr’s & nurses breaking down from the extreme toll it took on them. Government spreading panic my foot.
There’s a health ministry & top medical experts who advise the government & they’re supposed to follow their guidance. If they listen to every opposing voice we’d still be stuck in phase 1.

[JlmBoi]

If they listen to every opposing voice we’d still be stuck in phase 1.

Noone is saying thats what should be done. I don't think what we are saying contradicts.

[AsherO]

I think that's not how government should work. They should be holding themselves to the highest standard. People are seemingly unaware of how far government is from what it should be. If governments were judged as public companies their performance reports would be atrocious. That's reality, act accordingly. That doesn't mean flaunt rules, it does mean don't automatically buy the level of panic being disseminated.

But you’re expecting government to make optimal policy decisions based on an unprecedented situation, where the data trickles in and is ever evolving. This isn’t “the highest standard”, it’s simply an unrealistic standard. You’re a nice guy, but I doubt you’d do a better job than Fauci or another bureaucrat, I’m not sure there are many people who would.

IMHO the people the government is contending against, and their unreasonable expectations, are as much of the problem as government bureaucracy is.

[JlmBoi]

IMHO the people the government is contending against, and their unreasonable expectations, are as much of the problem as government bureaucracy is.

I hear. I think what I'm saying is an important part of the discussion and it's chaval that in general these things are being anti government etc although I get why it's like that.

[biobook]

If the pandemic was managed like an outside consultant does risk management for a company then the government would be fulfilling its role.

This is an interesting perspective, one that I haven't heard before.  I'm not familiar with the field of risk management.  How would this apply to the current situation?  How should the pandemic have been managed?

[JlmBoi]

This is an interesting perspective, one that I haven't heard before.  I'm not familiar with the field of risk management.  How would this apply to the current situation?  How should the pandemic have been managed?

I don't think anyone has complete answers. The fact that the government is portraying itself as having them is super destructive for the state of COVID and for the relationship between the government and the peope in general.

[Lurker]

I don't think anyone has complete answers. The fact that the government is portraying itself as having them is super destructive for the state of COVID and for the relationship between the government and the peope in general.

I think you'd be very hard pressed to find a government that has portrayed itself as having the complete answers (Cuomo aside). That people are convinced that government has said anything remotely close to that is a huge problem. Virtually all messaging I've seen is something along the lines of, "We don't have all the answers, or even most of them, but based on what is occurring ('x'), our experts are telling us we need to do react by doing 'y'." It seems that people see that and somehow hear, "We've got all the answers. Everyone must do 'y' immediately and this will all end."

[avromie7]

I think you'd be very hard pressed to find a government that has portrayed itself as having the complete answers (Cuomo aside). That people are convinced that government has said anything remotely close to that is a huge problem. Virtually all messaging I've seen is something along the lines of, "We don't have all the answers, or even most of them, but based on what is occurring ('x'), our experts are telling us we need to do react by doing 'y'." It seems that people see that and somehow hear, "We've got all the answers. Everyone must do 'y' immediately and this will all end."

2 weeks to slow the spread.

[Lurker]

2 weeks to slow the spread.

I don't know if you're agreeing with me or not.

[Dan]

2 weeks to slow the spread.

So your problem is Trump?

[biobook]

I don't think anyone has complete answers. The fact that the government is portraying itself as having them is super destructive for the state of COVID and for the relationship between the government and the peope in general.

It sounded like you were proposing an alternative answer to how they should have acted. What did you mean by this?  Specifically how do you think they should have managed it differently?

If the pandemic was managed like an outside consultant does risk management for a company then the government would be fulfilling its role.

[JlmBoi]

Specifically how do you think they should have managed it differently?

Being open to opinions that don't fit the narrative is a good start.

[JlmBoi]

2 weeks to slow the spread.

This. And countless Bibi speeches along the same lines. They were not being honest about not having a long term strategy.

[Dan]

This. And countless Bibi speeches along the same lines. They were not being honest about not having a long term strategy.

So your problem is with Trump and Bibi?

[PlatinumGuy]

Being open to opinions that don't fit the narrative is a good start.

These arguments always go the same way. They start with innocent complaints about 'dishonest messaging' or some other straw man, and ultimately boil down to somebody who refuses to accept reality and wants 'an opinion that doesn't fit the narrative'.

[JlmBoi]

These arguments always go the same way. They start with innocent complaints about 'dishonest messaging' or some other straw man, and ultimately boil down to somebody who refuses to accept reality and wants 'an opinion that doesn't fit the narrative'.

You think the panic is entirely on the people?

[PlatinumGuy]

You think the panic is entirely on the people?

What?

When people say 'opinions that don't fit the narrative', they mean opinions that don't fit reality as it is understood by 99.9% of competent opinion.