Author Topic: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel  (Read 121913 times)

Offline Lurker

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Re: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel
« Reply #280 on: September 15, 2020, 10:42:14 AM »
I was just there, sorry to disappoint you.

Wasn't referring to Israel specifically, was referring to your habit of posting first-hand info from a myriad of locations throughout this pandemic.

Based on articles people posted about 2 things happening at same time so must be one was causing the other..... this is the exact same thing.

Correlation does not equal causation, especially when there are other factors which are being ignored.
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Offline yaakov35

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Re: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel
« Reply #281 on: September 15, 2020, 10:50:20 AM »


Wasn't referring to Israel specifically, was referring to your habit of posting first-hand info from a myriad of locations throughout this pandemic.

Correlation does not equal causation, especially when there are other factors which are being ignored.

I wasn't in all of them at the same time... but between my family and myself it was all at most second hand knowledge.
Correct it does not, but nobody takes that into account the other way either. I was just pointing it out and ofc you got upset about it.

Offline Lurker

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Re: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel
« Reply #282 on: September 15, 2020, 10:50:28 AM »
I think something needs to be cleared up about masks. THEY DO NOT STOP THE SPREAD OF COVID-19. They slow the spread, and help lower the viral load people are exposed to, thereby lessening the severity of the infection. Masks are primarily effective at keeping the number of infections low, as a preventive measure. However, if there are a high number of infections, masks will not eradicate the virus. They will help keep the Rt from exploding.
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Offline yaakov35

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Re: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel
« Reply #283 on: September 15, 2020, 11:01:40 AM »
I think something needs to be cleared up about masks. THEY DO NOT STOP THE SPREAD OF COVID-19. They slow the spread, and help lower the viral load people are exposed to, thereby lessening the severity of the infection. Masks are primarily effective at keeping the number of infections low, as a preventive measure. However, if there are a high number of infections, masks will not eradicate the virus. They will help keep the Rt from exploding.
I don't think you understand. They didn't just start wearing masks, they were wearing them when there was 200 cases a day and it still exploded.

Offline yaakov35

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Re: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel
« Reply #284 on: September 15, 2020, 11:02:24 AM »
Do you have a large boich? You seem to pull a lot of information from it
https://imoh.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=66b5c304a3114df89ef5cfc8e8b12eb2&locale=he&
This stuff is literally posted on every israeli website, but if you'd rather criticize then go right ahead.

Offline NTorch

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Re: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel
« Reply #285 on: September 15, 2020, 11:04:35 AM »
For someone who isn't in israel you sure do post a lot about it... in any case, in public mask compliance is very high in israel and so are infections. So if anything masks are causing the cases .


I wasn't in all of them at the same time... but between my family and myself it was all at most second hand knowledge.
Correct it does not, but nobody takes that into account the other way either. I was just pointing it out and ofc you got upset about it.

But my having kids in Israel does not count?

Offline yaakov35

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Re: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel
« Reply #286 on: September 15, 2020, 11:04:36 AM »


Hope you are being sarcastic about "masks causing the cases." Take a look at what is going in the Dakotas now where there were no mask rules and they are spiking (no I don't live there, but I do pay attention to the news). Or on college campuses where frat parties where kids go unmasked are causing big spikes and dorm and school closures.

We've been in this 6 months and people still don't understand, covid hit masked and unmasked places just as hard. So if you say oh look they're having an outbreak and don't wear masks then your just being  a whose falling right into their ploy.

Offline Lurker

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Re: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel
« Reply #287 on: September 15, 2020, 11:29:22 AM »
I don't think you understand. They didn't just start wearing masks, they were wearing them when there was 200 cases a day and it still exploded.

1) I can't say with any amount of certainty either way, but based on posts here and pictures from various websites, I have a very hard time believing that masks were being worn by everyone in Israel when there were 200 cases per day.

2) Circumstances on the ground have changed dramatically from when there were 200 cases per day. Yeshivos and seminaries flew in thousands of people, and many Israelis returned from overseas recently. To ignore those outside factors when blaming masks for not keeping the spread down is dishonest.
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Offline aygart

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Re: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel
« Reply #288 on: September 15, 2020, 11:36:57 AM »
"Flatten the curve" will go down as one of the worst public messaging fiascos of all time. It was a huge marketing blunder. The message should have been "Slow the spread." That's the goal now, and it has always been the goal. Unfortunately, they got the wording wrong in the beginning and people have latched on to the bad messaging as an excuse for abandoning all measures in spread prevention.
What would be the end game of a slow the spread campaign? It is seeming more and more inevitable that the vast majority of people will catch it without very heavy-handed rules וכולי האי ואולי
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline aygart

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Re: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel
« Reply #289 on: September 15, 2020, 11:39:58 AM »
Are you asking on a holistic level, or strictly on a number of infections and hospitalizations?

Have we all forgotten about "flatten the curve"? Are the measures being enforced aimed at "flattening the curve" to a manageable level, or are they aiming at some vague (possibly unachievable) reality?

My main point above was not the bracelet, it was about the message that is IMHO more likely to gain compliance and slow the spread.
Any measure at all. The best way to cause a very large spike will be to incentivize people to get infected. Do you want COVID parties where people line up to try and get infected and get it over with? Where do you think that will lead? If prior infection was a requirement to get in to 770 for RH/YK would there be many people meking sure to get infected to get in? Would you?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Euclid

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Re: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel
« Reply #290 on: September 15, 2020, 11:49:04 AM »
What would be the end game of a slow the spread campaign? It is seeming more and more inevitable that the vast majority of people will catch it without very heavy-handed rules וכולי האי ואולי
Why does there need to be an endgame?
The message should've been: "slow the spread, and give medical science time to accumulate knowledge, develop therapeutics and vaccines".
Would you rather get covid now or in March?

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Re: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel
« Reply #291 on: September 15, 2020, 11:50:24 AM »
Why does there need to be an endgame?
The message should've been: "slow the spread, and give medical science time to accumulate knowledge, develop therapeutics and vaccines".
Would you rather get covid now or in March?
And then you wonder why people think it means to stay fully locked locked down forever?
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Offline gozalim

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Re: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel
« Reply #292 on: September 15, 2020, 11:51:28 AM »
Imagine immunity bracelets got you into uman

Offline Euclid

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Re: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel
« Reply #293 on: September 15, 2020, 11:56:38 AM »
Imagine immunity bracelets got you into uman
ummunity bracelets

Offline Euclid

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The current state of COVID-19 in Israel
« Reply #294 on: September 15, 2020, 12:02:16 PM »
And then you wonder why people think it means to stay fully locked locked down forever?
With the benefit of hindsight (which is the lens through which we're having this discussion), if this would've been the message I highly doubt people would think that we're being locked down forever. Look at what just a few months can do...

Problem now is that the whole topic has been poisoned by bad messaging and politics.

Offline Lurker

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Re: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel
« Reply #295 on: September 15, 2020, 12:25:02 PM »
And then you wonder why people think it means to stay fully locked locked down forever?

Where in that message did you see a lockdown?
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Offline chevron

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Re: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel
« Reply #296 on: September 15, 2020, 12:28:47 PM »
My earlier message Purim time was slow the spread and let doctors learn to treat it better.

Many doctors travelled to NYC to help, this ny benefited and the doctors learned a lot.

If the USA saw a high level of multi state spikes back in March, it would have been worse, much worse.

Now? It's a question of keeping the numbers low, the spread low, slowly science and the medical world got better.

Stuff like proning And various drugs, we learned to take vitamin c and get sunshine or take vitamin d and so on

I read kikkar Shabbat and the pics there are a joke in terms of mask wearing.

It's true that they pick on the frum world, but they expect the leaders to act.

What exactly is ideal anyways about getting a crippling virus for 2-3 weeks and spend your entire tishrey in bed ?


Offline yfr bachur

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Re: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel
« Reply #297 on: September 15, 2020, 03:37:00 PM »

I wasn't in all of them at the same time... but between my family and myself it was all at most second hand knowledge.
Correct it does not, but nobody takes that into account the other way either. I was just pointing it out and ofc you got upset about it.

Not to pile on but the plural of second hand anecdotal knowledge does not equal data

Offline Mikes@Micro

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Re: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel
« Reply #298 on: September 15, 2020, 03:53:20 PM »
1) I can't say with any amount of certainty either way, but based on posts here and pictures from various websites, I have a very hard time believing that masks were being worn by everyone in Israel when there were 200 cases per day.


I am currently in a very Chareidi Neighborhood in Yerushalayim and the mask compliance is higher than anywhere in the USA.
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Offline CRACKERJACK

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Re: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel
« Reply #299 on: September 15, 2020, 03:55:18 PM »
I am currently in a very Chareidi Neighborhood in Yerushalayim and the mask compliance is higher than anywhere in ny nj
FTFY
i can say the same in romema