Author Topic: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel  (Read 307558 times)

Online tavster

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Re: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel
« Reply #1500 on: February 02, 2021, 10:28:02 AM »
 :-\



Offline biobook

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Re: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel
« Reply #1501 on: February 02, 2021, 10:29:25 AM »
I'm just curious & confused about this sudden outbreak. Is there a likelihood that the vaccine resulted in the new covid19 variant? I'd be happy if anyone can disprove this theory. There are rumors saying that alot of the elderly, including Rabbi Abraham J Twerski, died after getting dose 1 or 2 of the vaccine.
This article was quite alarming:

I haven't read the articles you linked, but I think my earlier post at least partially addresses this:
You're hearing about people catching covid after vaccination, but there's no way they can catch it from the vaccine itself.  Here are a few possibilities:

1. They caught covid BEFORE they got the vaccine.  It takes an average of 5 days for symptoms to appear, but can be as much as 2-3 weeks later.  During that interval they got the vaccine, and mistakenly thought that the vaccine caused covid, but they really were already infected before they got the vaccine.

2. They caught covid DURING the time they went for the vaccine.  The most vulnerable people have been isolating at home, and when they go for the vaccine they may come in contact with people who are infected - for example, during the ride in a car or bus on the way to the vaccination place, or while sitting with other people who are waiting for the injection, or who are resting briefly after getting it.

3. They caught covid in the days AFTER the vaccine.  The vaccine is not immediately effective.  It takes a couple of weeks to start building up immunity, and only after the second injection does it become very strong.  Even then, it's not 100%, so people need to continue to take precautions.

Offline Ergel

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Re: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel
« Reply #1502 on: February 02, 2021, 10:31:10 AM »
The concept of Vaccine-induced enhancement is pretty frightening as well, See links below:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7131326/

https://www.pnas.org/content/117/15/8218
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41564-020-00789-5 seems to do a better job of explaining how this works:
Quote
ADE has been documented to occur through two distinct mechanisms in viral infections: by enhanced antibody-mediated virus uptake into Fc gamma receptor IIa (FcγRIIa)-expressing phagocytic cells leading to increased viral infection and replication, or by excessive antibody Fc-mediated effector functions or immune complex formation causing enhanced inflammation and immunopathology (Fig. 1, Box 1). Both ADE pathways can occur when non-neutralizing antibodies or antibodies at sub-neutralizing levels bind to viral antigens without blocking or clearing infection
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Online AsherO

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Re: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel
« Reply #1503 on: February 02, 2021, 10:35:40 AM »
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41564-020-00789-5 seems to do a better job of explaining how this works:

Can someone please translate that quote into laymen’s terms?
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Offline biobook

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Re: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel
« Reply #1504 on: February 02, 2021, 10:42:20 AM »
Can someone please translate that quote into laymen’s terms?
+1

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Re: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel
« Reply #1505 on: February 02, 2021, 10:43:36 AM »
+1

If you can’t parse that I’m not sure anyone here can...
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Offline biobook

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Re: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel
« Reply #1506 on: February 02, 2021, 10:59:02 AM »
The concept of Vaccine-induced enhancement is pretty frightening as well, See links below:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7131326/

https://www.pnas.org/content/117/15/8218

The first article is from 2009, and describes the general concept of antibody-induced enhancement.  Antibodies are produced against the virus in a first infection (or vaccination), but when a second infection occurs, the antibodies attach to the virus and actually make it easier for the virus to cause disease. 

This doesn't happen often, but it's known to occur to those who get dengue.  Dr. Griffin mentioned this in July.

TWiV (This Week in Virology) #635, recorded July 5

These are my notes of Dr. Griffin's talk, so I can't guarantee they're accurate.  If you have questions, go listen to the podcast.

Possible reinfection. With some other viruses, a second bout is worse than the first.  Earlier in the epidemic, cases that were initially thought to be reinfections were probably just two phases of a single infection. But we’re still not sure if it was reinfection, or how quickly reinfection would occur. 

With some other viruses, a second reinfection is often more severe.  Dr. Griffin himself caught dengue in China in the 1980s, easily recovered, then got it again in Zimbabwe.  He was so sick the second time that his parents were told “We’ll let you know if he’s still here in the morning.”  Well, obviously he recovered, but we don’t know what will happen with covid, so it’s foolhardy to assume that reinfection would be mild when it could potentially lead to tragic consequences.


The second article you link is from April of last year, when scientists were just starting to work on a vaccine, and the possibility of virus- or antibody-induced enhancement was on their minds.

But in the time since then, there hasn't been any evidence of this sort of enhancement in those who've gotten reinfected, so it seems extremely unlikely to be relevant to Covid.

https://www.chop.edu/centers-programs/vaccine-education-center/vaccine-safety/antibody-dependent-enhancement-and-vaccines

Offline chayal101

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Re: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel
« Reply #1507 on: February 02, 2021, 11:16:44 AM »
The first article is from 2009, and describes the general concept of antibody-induced enhancement.  Antibodies are produced against the virus in a first infection (or vaccination), but when a second infection occurs, the antibodies attach to the virus and actually make it easier for the virus to cause disease. 

This doesn't happen often, but it's known to occur to those who get dengue.  Dr. Griffin mentioned this in July.

The second article you link is from April of last year, when scientists were just starting to work on a vaccine, and the possibility of virus- or antibody-induced enhancement was on their minds.

But in the time since then, there hasn't been any evidence of this sort of enhancement in those who've gotten reinfected, so it seems extremely unlikely to be relevant to Covid.

https://www.chop.edu/centers-programs/vaccine-education-center/vaccine-safety/antibody-dependent-enhancement-and-vaccines
There have been alot attempts at a coronavirus vaccine in the past & all have been unsuccessful due to the 'vaccine-induced enhancement' issue. This is NOT a new concept.
& addressing the Mrna vaccines- it's still fairly new & 'experimental'. How do we know for certain it doesn't cause asymptomatic spread of a new kind of covid virus??
Here's one article. there are many many more, I'm sure you'd be more familiar with it:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.abc.net.au/article/12146616

« Last Edit: February 02, 2021, 11:22:08 AM by chayal101 »
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Re: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel
« Reply #1508 on: February 02, 2021, 11:28:48 AM »
Here's the highlighted part of the article posted https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.abc.net.au/article/12146616
This article was written in April 2020. What makes you think that the Pfizer & morderna vaccine is not causing the same reaction for some vaccinated. Not all, but enough people are seeing adverse effects. Isn't that a cause for concern??
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Offline NTorch

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Re: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel
« Reply #1509 on: February 02, 2021, 11:31:02 AM »
There have been alot attempts at a coronavirus vaccine in the past & all have been unsuccessful due to the 'vaccine-induced enhancement' issue. This is NOT a new concept.
& addressing the Mrna vaccines- it's still fairly new & 'experimental'. How do we know for certain it doesn't cause asymptomatic spread of a new kind of covid virus??
Here's one article. there are many many more, I'm sure you'd be more familiar with it:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.abc.net.au/article/12146616

All of the articles you have been citing to are from April 2020 or earlier. I dont see any recent articles dealing with the current vaccines.

Meanwhile, Dr Fauci has addressed the concern about mutations and the vaccine -
Quote
Fauci urges COVID vaccinations to stop new strains: 'Viruses cannot mutate if they don't replicate'
https://www.yahoo.com/news/fauci-covid-variants-viruses-cannot-mutate-if-they-dont-replicate-181927797.html

Offline chayal101

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Re: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel
« Reply #1510 on: February 02, 2021, 11:45:18 AM »
All of the articles you have been citing to are from April 2020 or earlier. I dont see any recent articles dealing with the current vaccines.

Meanwhile, Dr Fauci has addressed the concern about mutations and the vaccine - https://www.yahoo.com/news/fauci-covid-variants-viruses-cannot-mutate-if-they-dont-replicate-181927797.html
Purposely taking older articles cuz we learn from the past what has failed & what has not.
The Mrna vaccine does not contain actual covid19 cells just a replica of the dna so it may be that its own form of covid is different than the live covid19 we've been dealing with till now & it is a FACT that the vaccine creates asymptomatic carriers (maybe they should be enforcing quarantine after vaccination) . Obviously, this is all theoretical. The same way you believe within a short month Israel is having thousands of positives & strangely effecting the younger.
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Re: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel
« Reply #1511 on: February 02, 2021, 12:21:09 PM »
No mention of the airport. IMHO it's reopening next week




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Re: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel
« Reply #1512 on: February 02, 2021, 12:43:15 PM »
replica of the dna so it may be that its own form of covid is different than the live covid19 we've been dealing with till now & it is a FACT that the vaccine creates asymptomatic carriers

The mRNA vaccines do not contain a replica or any form of DNA, and do not create Covid or Covid carriers. You are being fed malicious misinformation.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline chayal101

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Re: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel
« Reply #1513 on: February 02, 2021, 01:22:45 PM »
The mRNA vaccines do not contain a replica or any form of DNA, and do not create Covid or Covid carriers. You are being fed malicious misinformation.
I'm sorry, I didn't word it right. According to the CDC- "COVID-19 mRNA vaccines give instructions for our cells to make a harmless piece of what is called the “spike protein.” The spike protein is found on the surface of the virus that causes COVID-19." Maybe the so-called 'harmless piece of spike protein' can in fact be dangerous?? I am not being fed malicious 'misinformation' I'm just questioning & hoping for a good explanation. & I'm also wondering why others don't question. That's all.
It's not always about 'misinformation' it's more like the lack of information that cause us to question. Hydroxychloroquine treatment was also considered 'misinformation'... Frankly I'm sick & tired of the term 'misinformation' Last I've checked Twitter & Facebook don't hold a medical degree of any sort.
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Re: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel
« Reply #1514 on: February 02, 2021, 01:47:12 PM »

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Re: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel
« Reply #1515 on: February 02, 2021, 01:51:34 PM »
Maybe the so-called 'harmless piece of spike protein' can in fact be dangerous?
It can't, just like water can't be harmful like Covid.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

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Re: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel
« Reply #1516 on: February 02, 2021, 01:52:10 PM »
https://simchaspot.com/blog/2021/02/02/engagement-of-elhanan-sonnenfeld-to-tzippy-weingarten/

How did they get in? Is it open now?

I see others behind them davening in the Kosel plaza. Or maybe his last name got him some Old City protektsia.

Offline Ergel

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Re: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel
« Reply #1517 on: February 02, 2021, 01:57:14 PM »
I'm sorry, I didn't word it right. According to the CDC- "COVID-19 mRNA vaccines give instructions for our cells to make a harmless piece of what is called the “spike protein.” The spike protein is found on the surface of the virus that causes COVID-19." Maybe the so-called 'harmless piece of spike protein' can in fact be dangerous?? I am not being fed malicious 'misinformation' I'm just questioning & hoping for a good explanation. & I'm also wondering why others don't question. That's all.
It's not always about 'misinformation' it's more like the lack of information that cause us to question. Hydroxychloroquine treatment was also considered 'misinformation'... Frankly I'm sick & tired of the term 'misinformation' Last I've checked Twitter & Facebook don't hold a medical degree of any sort.
Because it's a piece of protein, not a virus. Like a million other proteins that can be found in your body
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

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Re: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel
« Reply #1518 on: February 02, 2021, 01:59:56 PM »
I see others behind them davening in the Kosel plaza. Or maybe his last name got him some Old City protektsia.
someone I know told me they were able to get in through Shaar Tzion. 

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Re: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel
« Reply #1519 on: February 02, 2021, 07:01:37 PM »
Purposely taking older articles cuz we learn from the past what has failed & what has not.
The Mrna vaccine does not contain actual covid19 cells just a replica of the dna so it may be that its own form of covid is different than the live covid19 we've been dealing with till now & it is a FACT that the vaccine creates asymptomatic carriers (maybe they should be enforcing quarantine after vaccination) . Obviously, this is all theoretical. The same way you believe within a short month Israel is having thousands of positives & strangely effecting the younger.
The vaccine does not create asymptomatic carriers, although it may very well turn carriers who would have been symptomatic, asymptomatic.

There have been no ADE issues witnessed during the creation of either of the vaccines in circulation.
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