The current state of COVID-19 in Israel

[yelped]

Lots of immediate/short term side effects reported, same as with any vaccine.

When you said:
I thought you meant they were somehow safer by design, not simply observed to be safer. Either way, if you're comparing to other vaccines please present comparative data.

I didn't mean normal symptoms like fever and achiness for a day. I meant other side effects.

[Lurker]

I didn't mean normal symptoms like fever and achiness for a day. I meant other side effects.

I think we're a little too early in the game to have any kind of confidence in that. Optimism is fine.

[PlatinumGuy]

The crazy part is, these are most likely the safest vaccines yet ever designed, and the facts are in front of our eyes, but when you give credence to FUD, everything is "I heard it's already killed 12 people in Israel while taking the vaccine" and other clearly made up stories that you can discredit in a second. However, apparently shikul hadas is hard for people. "אם אין דעת, הבדלה מנין?"

The great paradox of the information age. Access is easier than ever but no two people see the same picture.

[yelped]

I think we're a little too early in the game to have any kind of confidence in that. Optimism is fine.

I see it much less likely for mRNA to have long term effects than vaccines like the Johnson vaccine. Don't see any potential unknown side effect being worse than Covid-19's effects.

[AsherO]

I see it much less likely for mRNA to have long term effects than vaccines like the Johnson vaccine. Don't see any potential unknown side effect being worse than Covid-19's effects.

Your qualifications/basis for making that assertion?

[chayal101]

Nobody said anything about mandating. I don't think that's the government's place.

A layman can't properly research vaccines just like you can't properly research brain surgery or how 747s can fly. We trust people who are educated in the field.


Besides for that, we know that COVID has many short term and long term side effects, aside from millions of deaths. We also know the world economy is in ruins because of COVID and that life won't return to normal until there is true herd immunity and not Lakewood heard immunity.

We know that the vaccine has very little short term effects and studies prove that nearly all vaccine side effects show up within weeks of the shot. Arguments about potential long term effects are scare mongering and ignore the known short and long term effects of COVID.

I would have rather preferred getting natural immunity to the virus which didn't happen for me. So honestly I am frightened of a potentially more dangerous strain. @Lurker  as posted above kinda' sums up how I feel. So time will tell...

[PlatinumGuy]

I think we're a little too early in the game to have any kind of confidence in that. Optimism is fine.

There has never been any adverse effect from any vaccine that didn't appear within 2 months of vaccination.

There is absolutely no reason to fear the vaccine will act harmfully more than a year after it is flushed out of the body entirely and there is no damage recorded.

Your qualifications/basis for making that assertion?

The basic mechanism of mRNA is well understood and not at all pathogenic

So honestly I am frightened of a potentially more dangerous strain. @Lurker  as posted above kinda' sums up how I feel. So time will tell...

I can assure you @Lurker doesn't think the Covid vaccine will give someone a more dangerous strain of Covid, and the fear is no more justified than fearing I will break out of your computer screen to hit you.

Covid is a virus and the vaccine doesn't contain any virus. Go educate yourself before you spread your lies.

[Lurker]

I see it much less likely for mRNA to have long term effects than vaccines like the Johnson vaccine. Don't see any potential unknown side effect being worse than Covid-19's effects.

Again, there's reason for optimism, but to say mRNA will be the safest vaccines we've ever designed, this early in the game, is jumping the gun, IMO.

[AsherO]

Covid is a virus and the vaccine doesn't contain any virus. Go educate yourself before you spread your lies.

I think you misunderstood her. What I understood was that she's wishing she got COVID early on because as time goes by she'd be more likely to get a "worse" strain of COVID. I don't agree with any of it, but I also don't think she was suggesting the vaccine will give her a more dangerous strain of COVID.

[Lurker]

There has never been any adverse effect from any vaccine that didn't appear within 2 months of vaccination.

None of those were mRNA vaccines. Different game, different goalposts.

[yelped]

Again, there's reason for optimism, but to say mRNA will be the safest vaccines we've ever designed, this early in the game, is jumping the gun, IMO.

Ok, I hear what you're saying, but I say there's 90% likelihood that the outcome is as @PlatinumGuy says it, not some strange side effect showing up 10 years from now.

[chayal101]

I can assure you @Lurker doesn't think the Covid vaccine will give someone a more dangerous strain of Covid, and the fear is no more justified than fearing I will break out of your computer screen to hit you.

Covid is a virus and the vaccine doesn't contain any virus. Go educate yourself before you spread your lies.

You misunderstood me. I meant that I am frightened of a new strain, so I may in fact sign up for the vaccine. Personally, I would rather stick with the J&J old school vaccine. I am not an anti-vaxxer, I'm just skeptic of new technology vaccine.
& please calm down before using expressions such as 'Stop spreading your lies!' I'm not spreading anything. All I'm doing is trying to understand it better.

[S209]

There has never been any adverse effect from any vaccine that didn't appear within 2 months of vaccination.

Even despite this unfortunately little known fact, I will validate the fact that anything technically *can* happen, no matter how remote the possibility, so it’s ok to leave open the *possibility* of something occurring.

What frustrates me is how people are weighing and assigning the likelihood of potential adverse long term effects occurring from the vaccine (microscopic, if that) vs. the likelihood of negative effects from COVID (an absolutely certainty).

Throughout COVID the one thing that has astounded me above all others is many people’s complete inability to use basic analytical skills to compute relatively simple statistical problems.

[Lurker]

What frustrates me is how people are weighing and assigning the likelihood of potential adverse long term effects occurring from the vaccine (microscopic, if that) vs. the likelihood of negative effects from COVID (an absolutely certainty).

... vs. the likelihood that I'll be able to avoid getting Covid altogether. You can't discount that part of the equation.

[AsherO]

Throughout COVID the one thing that has astounded me above all others is many people’s complete inability to use basic analytical skills to compute relatively simple statistical problems.

It would be highly beneficial to society to teach probability and statistics instead of algebra, geometry and trig.

[etech0]

... vs. the likelihood that I'll be able to avoid getting Covid altogether. You can't discount that part of the equation.

How likely is that?

[PlatinumGuy]

I think you misunderstood her. What I understood was that she's wishing she got COVID early on because as time goes by she'd be more likely to get a "worse" strain of COVID. I don't agree with any of it, but I also don't think she was suggesting the vaccine will give her a more dangerous strain of COVID.

I wish you were right, but:

& addressing the Mrna vaccines- it's still fairly new & 'experimental'. How do we know for certain it doesn't cause asymptomatic spread of a new kind of covid virus??

I'm just curious & confused about this sudden outbreak. I'd be happy if anyone can disprove this theory. There are rumors saying that alot of the elderly, including Rabbi Abraham J Twerski, died after getting dose 1 or 2 of the vaccine.
This article was quite alarming:

You misunderstood me. I meant that I am frightened of a new strain, so I may in fact sign up for the vaccine. Personally, I would rather stick with the J&J old school vaccine. I am not an anti-vaxxer, I'm just skeptic of new technology vaccine.
& please calm down before using expressions such as 'Stop spreading your lies!' I'm not spreading anything. All I'm doing is trying to understand it better.

I may have misunderstood you, but it certainly doesn't appear so. I will calm down as soon as you walk back your previous assertions that the vaccines are making people sick with covid. כל המרחם על האכזרים סופו להתאכזר על הרחמנים.

[yitzgar]

... vs. the likelihood that I'll be able to avoid getting Covid altogether. You can't discount that part of the equation.

So are we at "herd immunity" or "everyone will get it anyway"

[AsherO]

I wish you were right, but:

I stand corrected, you were following her words closer than I was and the inconsistency is clear as day.

[S209]

One more thing. Saying things like “it may cause infertility” which doesn’t have a single leg to stand on- zero- purely because the fear factor and impossibility to prove a negative is overwhelming- is disgusting obfuscation.

Talking to people, one of the big fears they mention of taking the vaccine is infertility. Where did they hear that, I ask? Oh, they read it somewhere, maybe Lakewood Scoop, who knows, where there’s smoke there’s fire, of course they’re not saying it *does* cause it but how do I know it *doesn’t*.. one fellow literally told me his whole (high risk) family was able to be vaccinated, his parents took it because they’re past the stage of having children but he refused it “just in case”..

FUD is a good word. Who is behind this stuff?