Author Topic: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel  (Read 292841 times)

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel
« Reply #1620 on: February 04, 2021, 05:23:11 PM »
Within the same timeframe (or even further out) how many people who recovered got infected again?
See in the reinfection thread. Out of ~650k people who tested positive in Israel, ~600 tested positive a second time more than 3 months after the first time, and that includes reactivations and dead virus.

However, there are indications reinfections are positive for a shorter window of time than novel infections, so they are less likely to be positive at the given time of testing even if they are reinfected, and the vast majority of Israeli testing is for exposures looking to shorten quarantine, and people who had Covid are exempted from quarantine so are much less likely to test in the first place.

One way or another, reinfection is possible but isn't common.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel
« Reply #1621 on: February 04, 2021, 05:41:49 PM »
There is an epic drama in the government meeting now. Gantz obstructed the lockdown extension (which expired at midnight), so Bibbi for the first time used the nuclear option of calling a vote where Gantz/B&W lost bc they were the minority, even though the agreement stipulates B&W will have a an equal say (they were supposed to get more ministers originally).

 The legal counsel is begging the government to work out the vote differently so it doesn't remain in doubt.

https://twitter.com/barakravid/status/1357452657447890948

https://twitter.com/amirohana/status/1357470542417301507
« Last Edit: February 04, 2021, 06:27:24 PM by PlatinumGuy »
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel
« Reply #1622 on: February 04, 2021, 05:51:11 PM »
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline Proisrael

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Re: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel
« Reply #1623 on: February 05, 2021, 02:44:36 AM »
I admit I was also worried when I heard that.  Not that it was from the vaccine, but that I heard that he had died while being treated from Covid.  At least that was in the news I had read:
" He was Niftar after contracting COVID-19 last week and had been hospitalized in a a hospital in Eretz Yisroel. He was 90."
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/boruch-dayan-emmes/1944039/petira-of-rabbi-dr-a-j-twerski-ztl-niftar-from-covid-19-in-eretz-yisroel.html

So someone who was knowledgeable about medicine and had managed to avoid catching Covid for almost a year, suddenly gets it.... the same week he got the vaccine?  I heard of a few other instances like this, and it seems to me that the most likely explanation is that they were infected around the time of getting the shot - either from the driver who took them, the medical personnel who administered it, the other people coming for vaccinations at the same time.  Some of the pictures you see where vaccinations are being given show people in small rooms, or many people together, which makes it easier for an airborne virus to travel.  This photo shows 2 people getting the vaccine, from 2 technicians, but it looks like another 9 people are within breathing distance.
https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/covid-2020-12-18/card/lChtd0BqejvmRcSHelzk

This in itself is not a reason to avoid the vaccine, of course, but it is a reason to try to select the circumstances in which one gets it, to avoid having to be in a crowded space.

I had been wishing that people who catch Covid around the time of vaccination would publicize how they think they got it.  And then, just this morning, I got such a phone call from family in Israel.  I hadn't been wishing it would happen to someone I know, but it did.  She's been carefully isolating due to contact with a vulnerable person, so she got the vaccine, and a week later came down with symptoms, and tested positive.  The rest of her family tested negative to the virus, she quarantined, and is BH fine now.  So how did she get infected with Covid?  She remembered that the technician who gave her the shot seemed to be sniffling.  Well, it was winter, maybe he had a cold, or allergies?  But then she had another thought, and had her family tested for antibodies.  Sure enough, her young child, who had been going to school and had not had symptoms tested positive for antibodies.  So she she can't be sure whether it was from the technician or that her son caught the virus in school, and brought it home to her, around the same time that she happened to get the vaccine.

Sadly I have heard from a few doctors, that found out after the fact, that patients that were COVID+ with symptoms went to get the shot.

 This is why we cant have good things.

Offline Proisrael

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Re: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel
« Reply #1624 on: February 05, 2021, 02:50:03 AM »
The overwhelming majority of Rabbis & doctors in Israel are instructing everybody to get vaccinated. Anybody who doesn’t get vaccinated and doesn’t stay 100% isolated is drilling a hole in the collective lifeboat and directly responsible for the ongoing maladies including lockdown and bittul Torah ועתיד ליתן את הדין.

This was a very strongly written letter sent out to my "city" from the rav who leads the kehilla. Side note completely, his mother was Rav Gifters sister in law.

אליעזר בן הרב עקיבא זצ"ל הכרמי
רב בית הכנסת המרכזי בקרית שמואל חיפה
ֹֹ
תורה ועבודה 6 קריית שמואל חיפה מ. 2638406 טל. 525420-0526 COM.GMAIL@HAKARMI
בס"ד ט"ו בשבט תשפ"א
אודות חובת החיסון
תושבי קרייתנו היקרים.
הצטערתי והזדעזעתי לשמוע כי בקרב תושבי הקריה יש פולמוס ודין ודברים באשר לחובת החיסון נגד קורונה.
הגמרא במסכת ע"ז אומרת "כל מי שיש בידו למחות ואינו מוחה - נענש עליו". מתוך שאיני רוצה להיתפ ס ולהיענש
חלילה, בעוון הציבור, ומתוך אכפתיות לשלום הציבור וכלל ישראל, רצוני לבאר דעתי בעניין החיסון.
חובה גמורה בעיני, הן מצד ההלכה, הן מצד המוסר והן מצד השכל הישר, להתחסן כנגד הקורונה.
אלה שאינם מתחסנים וכל שכן הקוראים לאחרים להימנע מחיסון, או המונעים מבני משפחתם להתחסן, מתחייבים
בנפשם חלילה , וחמור מכך מתחייבים בנפש זולתם וחלילה וחס עוון גרימת רציחה בידם.
תועלת החיסון ברורה וחד משמעית לדעת כל המומחים , ואין בכוחם של כל מיני סיפורי בדים, הכחשות והילוך אימים
לטשטש עובדה זו. גם אם יש אפשרות של תופעות לוואי מסוימות, אין בכוחם לגרוע מהחשיבות הכללית של חיסון
הציבור כולו. אין אדם רשאי להשתמט מחובה זו בטענה שאם כלל הציבור יתחסן יספיק הדבר אף עבורי ואני אמלט
נפשי מחשש תופעות הלוואי של החיסון. ראשית, כל אדם מסכן עצמו שאם ידבק חלילה הוא עלול להגיע למצב סכנה
והדבר נכון אף ביחס לצעירים. חשוב מכך , תועלת החיסון היא גם בתפוצתו הרחבה ואין אדם רשאי לפטור עצמו
מחובה זו.
לצערי, ראיתי ושמעתי שמעבר לאזהרות שווא מופצות גם קריאות בשם רבנים ודעת תורה שלא להתחסן. יש מקום
לפקפק אם אכן הדברים מהימנים ובפרט שגדולי הרבנים כבר חיוו דעתם -המובנת מאליה - בזכות החיסון. בכל אופן
ודאי שקריאות אלו אין להן משקל, הן באות משולי המחנה ופעמים שביסודן חוסר אמון בסיסי במוסדות המדינה.
אנו מלאים בהודאה לה' יתברך הנותן לנו כוח לעשות חיל, שנתן בלב חכמי לב, בינה וחכמה ליצור חיסון למגפה קשה
זו. הלב מתרחב בראותנו את כלל ישראל מתגייס למשימה זו של הצלת נפשות ומודים אנו לה' יתברך שזכינו והמאבק
במגיפה מנוהל על ידי אחינו בני ישראל, בארץ ישראל, ע"י ממשלת ישראל.

Offline S209

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Re: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel
« Reply #1625 on: February 05, 2021, 02:53:24 AM »
This was a very strongly written letter sent out to my "city" from the rav who leads the kehilla. Side note completely, his mother was Rav Gifters sister in law.
Wow. Maybe PlatinumGuy actually wasn’t speaking strongly enough.
Quote from: YitzyS
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Offline yfr bachur

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Re: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel
« Reply #1626 on: February 05, 2021, 07:10:30 AM »
So someone who was knowledgeable about medicine and had managed to avoid catching Covid for almost a year, suddenly gets it.... the same week he got the vaccine?  I heard of a few other instances like this, and it seems to me that the most likely explanation is that they were infected around the time of getting the shot - either from the driver who took them, the medical personnel who administered it, the other people coming for vaccinations at the same time.  Some of the pictures you see where vaccinations are being given show people in small rooms, or many people together, which makes it easier for an airborne virus to travel.  This photo shows 2 people getting the vaccine, from 2 technicians, but it looks like another 9 people are within breathing distance.
https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/covid-2020-12-18/card/lChtd0BqejvmRcSHelzk

This in itself is not a reason to avoid the vaccine, of course, but it is a reason to try to select the circumstances in which one gets it, to avoid having to be in a crowded space.
[/quote]

| know of a RY in EY who went to get the vax, saw the crowded waiting room, and left...

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Re: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel
« Reply #1627 on: February 05, 2021, 11:20:48 AM »
Wow. Maybe PlatinumGuy actually wasn’t speaking strongly enough.
There׳s a famous Vort; the Medrash says the Man would appear closer to Tzadikkim homes than to less tzadikim, the proximity to each recipient according to his stature. So if Korach’s Man must’ve been pretty far from his home, why didn’t he deduce from that the Moshe was right and he was wrong? He probably assumed he was right and the Man was far because he wasn’t being aggressive enough...
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline zh cohen

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Re: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel
« Reply #1628 on: February 05, 2021, 12:59:50 PM »

This in itself is not a reason to avoid the vaccine, of course, but it is a reason to try to select the circumstances in which one gets it, to avoid having to be in a crowded space.


And if the only options are getting it in a crowded place or not getting it at all?

(Before anyone decides to accuse me of being anti-vax, they should know that I am getting my second dose today)

Offline biobook

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Re: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel
« Reply #1629 on: February 05, 2021, 01:20:20 PM »

And if the only options are getting it in a crowded place or not getting it at all?

(Before anyone decides to accuse me of being anti-vax, they should know that I am getting my second dose today)
I'm debating this with myself, so I have no answer.  Although I'd be much less concerned about crowding for the second shot, since you supposedly would have at least some protection.

Right now, the availability I can find is in a stadium, where one drives up and sticks an arm out the window. 
+ No crowding, exposed only to the technician and those in your car
-  Even with reservations, waits are running 5-6 hours.  They warn people to come with enough gas, food and drink for a long wait, but I don't think the car is big enough for a port-a-potty, so that won't work for us. 

My choice at this point is to wait for more vaccine to be available in more sites, so that there's less crowding at any one site.

Offline NTorch

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Re: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel
« Reply #1630 on: February 05, 2021, 01:25:57 PM »
I'm debating this with myself, so I have no answer.  Although I'd be much less concerned about crowding for the second shot, since you supposedly would have at least some protection.

Right now, the availability I can find is in a stadium, where one drives up and sticks an arm out the window. 
+ No crowding, exposed only to the technician and those in your car
-  Even with reservations, waits are running 5-6 hours.  They warn people to come with enough gas, food and drink for a long wait, but I don't think the car is big enough for a port-a-potty, so that won't work for us. 

My choice at this point is to wait for more vaccine to be available in more sites, so that there's less crowding at any one site.

Where are you located that these are your only options?

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Re: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel
« Reply #1631 on: February 05, 2021, 01:43:20 PM »
I don't think the car is big enough for a port-a-potty, so that won't work for us. 

Rent an RV? :D
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Offline biobook

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Re: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel
« Reply #1632 on: February 05, 2021, 01:43:43 PM »
Where are you located that these are your only options?
South Florida. 
Two acquaintances proudly boasted that they had gotten their shot here.  After flying down specifically for that purpose...  In fairness, they were eligible, since they each own a second home here, but still.
The hospitals near us had vaccine, but they ran out and canceled existing reservations about two weeks ago.  They should be getting more soon, and plans are underway to expand availability to CVS or Walgreen and Publix.  I got an email that the JCC was arranging a sign-up for a one-time vaccine clinic... on Shabbos.  I expect within another week or so there will be so much available that we'll be able to choose one that will best work for our location, transportation, and anxiety level.

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Re: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel
« Reply #1633 on: February 05, 2021, 01:51:42 PM »
South Florida. 
Two acquaintances proudly boasted that they had gotten their shot here.  After flying down specifically for that purpose...  In fairness, they were eligible, since they each own a second home here, but still.
The hospitals near us had vaccine, but they ran out and canceled existing reservations about two weeks ago.  They should be getting more soon, and plans are underway to expand availability to CVS or Walgreen and Publix.  I got an email that the JCC was arranging a sign-up for a one-time vaccine clinic... on Shabbos.  I expect within another week or so there will be so much available that we'll be able to choose one that will best work for our location, transportation, and anxiety level.

If you're ok with a drive north, try getting an appointment at Tradewinds Park. But aim for as early in the morning as possible.
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Offline NTorch

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Re: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel
« Reply #1634 on: February 05, 2021, 01:53:04 PM »
South Florida. 
Two acquaintances proudly boasted that they had gotten their shot here.  After flying down specifically for that purpose...  In fairness, they were eligible, since they each own a second home here, but still.
The hospitals near us had vaccine, but they ran out and canceled existing reservations about two weeks ago.  They should be getting more soon, and plans are underway to expand availability to CVS or Walgreen and Publix.  I got an email that the JCC was arranging a sign-up for a one-time vaccine clinic... on Shabbos.  I expect within another week or so there will be so much available that we'll be able to choose one that will best work for our location, transportation, and anxiety level.

Since this was an Israel thread I was going to give suggestions there (my 19 yo son got his yesterday in RBS).

The JCC e-mail is not so pashut that you can't do it. R' Frand gave shiur a few weeks back on whether you can be vaccinated for COVID on Shabbos assuming that you can get back and forth without being michallel shabbos in the process. I don't recall the maskana, but this is something that you may want to speak to your LOR about.

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Re: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel
« Reply #1635 on: February 05, 2021, 01:57:58 PM »
If you're ok with a drive north, try getting an appointment at Tradewinds Park. But aim for as early in the morning as possible.
You were there?  How early?  Any lines?

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Re: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel
« Reply #1636 on: February 05, 2021, 02:38:57 PM »
You were there?  How early?  Any lines?

There are always lines everywhere down here. I know people who waited 8-10 hours in some places around here. My in-laws both went to Tradewinds. MIL waited 4 hours each shot (first time from 10-2, second time from 7:30-11:30). FIL got there at 6:30 before the park opened and was out within 2.5 hours each time.
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Re: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel
« Reply #1637 on: February 05, 2021, 02:40:29 PM »
I got an email that the JCC was arranging a sign-up for a one-time vaccine clinic... on Shabbos.
Is there no room to say one should do this?

ETA: Baruch Shekivanti
The JCC e-mail is not so pashut that you can't do it. R' Frand gave shiur a few weeks back on whether you can be vaccinated for COVID on Shabbos assuming that you can get back and forth without being michallel shabbos in the process. I don't recall the maskana, but this is something that you may want to speak to your LOR about.
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Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel
« Reply #1638 on: February 05, 2021, 03:00:56 PM »
Maybe 2 cars would allow alternating people for bathroom breaks

Is there no room to say one should do this?

Vaccination prima facie is מאכל בריאים like vitamins and the shot typically doesn't draw blood, so it wouldn't seem like a big issue.

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Re: The current state of COVID-19 in Israel
« Reply #1639 on: February 06, 2021, 07:35:45 PM »
The Israeli Health Ministry reported on Saturday evening 6,271 new coronavirus infections in the past 24 hours.

According to the report, 7.8% of the tests that were conducted came out positive.
The number of patients in critical condition dropped by 12 since  midnight, reaching 1,124. 

Some 38 people have died in the past 24 hours, raising the death toll to 5,057.