Is everyone really a racist?

[aygart]

At least someone understands there is more than just the raw numbers.

There is almost always much more to be seen in interpretation of the numbers than in the numbers themselves.

[CountValentine]

There is almost always much more to be seen in interpretation of the numbers than in the numbers themselves.

Not when the numbers on the surface support a narrative. Most will just run with them instead of looking at them honestly.

[aygart]

Not when the numbers on the surface support a narrative. Most will just run with them instead of looking at them honestly.

Here I am talking about reality and you start telling me narrative

[CountValentine]

Here I am talking about reality and you start telling me narrative

Unfortunately the narrative is what most believe in this thread as reality.
Blacks do this and that based on raw numbers. Very few are looking any deeper.

[aygart]

Very few are looking any deeper.

such is the way of the world. Hence the OP

[CountValentine]

such is the way of the world. Hence the OP

Is another everyone does it? 

[m65]

Is another everyone does it? 

notice the question in the thread title is "Is everyone really a racist?"

[AJK]

Unfortunately the narrative is what most believe in this thread as reality.
Blacks do this and that based on raw numbers. Very few are looking any deeper.

I mean, that's quite convenient... "Look deeper."

We can "what if" and hypothesize until the cows come home (and who doesn't love to do that), but can you point us to any statistics or study that actually does that and comes away with a conclusion that explains away the disparity?

[CountValentine]

I mean, that's quite convenient... "Look deeper."

We can "what if" and hypothesize until the cows come home (and who doesn't love to do that), but can you point us to any statistics or study that actually does that and comes away with a conclusion that explains away the disparity?

You like poverty being a factor? Or even if you accept the raw numbers it is still a very small percentage of the black population?

[AJK]

You like poverty being a factor? Or even if you accept the raw numbers it is still a very small percentage of the black population?

Again, I don't disagree that poverty, dropping out of school, being fatherless, and getting pregnant out of wedlock, etc., statistically contributes to the incidence of crime -- a fact not limited to any particular race.

You previously suggested that it was factors outside of those above that explained the disparity we're discussing, e.g., the number of police in a particular location.  I'm interested in those.  Otherwise, we're just discussing hypotheses, which is fine, but not something I have time to do on DDF.

[CountValentine]

Again, I don't disagree that poverty, dropping out of school, being fatherless, and getting pregnant out of wedlock, etc., statistically contributes to the incidence of crime -- a fact not limited to any particular race.

You previously suggested that it was factors outside of those above that explained the disparity we're discussing, e.g., the number of police in a particular location.  I'm interested in those.  Otherwise, we're just discussing hypotheses, which is fine, but not something I have time to do on DDF.

Actually all factors, including but not limited to the ones you mentioned when I say look deeper.

I am trying to find a study (either way) about if more police means more arrest but no luck so far.

[yzj]

https://www.the-sun.com/news/958863/african-american-hair-products-locked-up-white-people/

 So the stores claimed they only lock up products that have had a high incidence of theft in the past. Just happens to be that those products are all African-American hair products and not white ones. Is that racist or realist? Should they be unlocking these items just to treat everyone equally even though they know they will suffer losses in this category? Is that fair? How far should social justice go?

[AJK]

Fascinating question.

I'm curious on the perspective of @S209, @YitzyS, and @CountValentine.

[S209]

https://www.the-sun.com/news/958863/african-american-hair-products-locked-up-white-people/

 So the stores claimed they only lock up products that have had a high incidence of theft in the past. Just happens to be that those products are all African-American hair products and not white ones. Is that racist or realist? Should they be unlocking these items just to treat everyone equally even though they know they will suffer losses in this category? Is that fair? How far should social justice go?

A store should use sound data to make smart legal business decisions, including deciding which products to lock up based on past thefts. That’s for sure. Just like I think criminals should be arrested. I never debated that.

I only ever said I think we’re failing as far as African Americans are concerned regarding us as a country, and we should be working to find long term solutions.

(As an aside, you’re presenting a false dichotomy here- the other option could just as easily be to lock up all products despite the inconvenience, instead of not locking up any).

[eyj]

https://www.the-sun.com/news/958863/african-american-hair-products-locked-up-white-people/

 So the stores claimed they only lock up products that have had a high incidence of theft in the past. Just happens to be that those products are all African-American hair products and not white ones. Is that racist or realist? Should they be unlocking these items just to treat everyone equally even though they know they will suffer losses in this category? Is that fair? How far should social justice go?

חמשה דברים צוה כנען את בניו אהבו זה את זה ואהבו את הגזל ואהבו את הזמה ושנאו את אדוניכם ואל תדברו אמת -פסחים קי״ג

[CountValentine]

Fascinating question.

I'm curious on the perspective of @S209, @YitzyS, and @CountValentine.

...and I would like to hear your perspective. 

To me it is pretty simple. Locking up high theft or value items is common sense.

I go to a few DG's. They have laundry detergent behind the counter. Never new that was a high theft item. One of the stores is mostly black costumers and the other mostly white. Now maybe the same color is stealing from both stores but to them it makes sense to limit access to it.

[YitzyS]

https://www.the-sun.com/news/958863/african-american-hair-products-locked-up-white-people/

 So the stores claimed they only lock up products that have had a high incidence of theft in the past. Just happens to be that those products are all African-American hair products and not white ones. Is that racist or realist? Should they be unlocking these items just to treat everyone equally even though they know they will suffer losses in this category? Is that fair? How far should social justice go?

If it's purely data driven, I don't think you can call it racist. But, I do think it is recommended - both from a moral perspective and from a marketing perspective - to use tact, even when doing the right thing, lest you insult people in a scenario which would seem racist to clueless onlookers. No, don't ponder to the crazy expectations of the fringe activists, but in this case, it is reasonable to assume people will get insulted, and you can circumvent it by locking them all up.

So in short - IMO it's not racist, but it is insensitive.

[yzj]

A store should use sound data to make smart legal business decisions, including deciding which products to lock up based on past thefts. That’s for sure. Just like I think criminals should be arrested. I never debated that.

I only ever said I think we’re failing as far as African Americans are concerned regarding us as a country, and we should be working to find long term solutions.

(As an aside, you’re presenting a false dichotomy here- the other option could just as easily be to lock up all products despite the inconvenience, instead of not locking up any).

Let’s say for arguments sake you are correct and the store must lock up the white products as well despite the fact that they are never stolen (seems pretty absurd to me) to avoid the appearance of racism. That works when it’s a question of a couple of shelves of product. What about the next step when retailers simply won’t open stores in minority communities because of a history of theft. They can’t be expected to not open stores in the affluent neighborhoods either just to make everyone equal. Does social justice demand that they open the same stores with the same products and square footage in the minority neighborhoods and suffer the financial consequences, or risk being branded racist?

[CountValentine]

Does social justice demand that they open the same stores with the same products and square footage in the minority neighborhoods and suffer the financial consequences, or risk being branded racist?

Leverage is always used for major chains to open stores in minority communities.

[S209]

Let’s say for arguments sake you are correct and the store must lock up the white products as well

Considering I never said that I’m not going to bother reading the rest of your post.