Poll

What baby step are you up to?

$1,000 Rainy day fund
Pay off all debt using the debt snowball
3 to 6 months of expenses in savings
Invest 15% of household income into Roth IRAs and pre-tax retirement (401k Etc.)
College /Simcha fund for children
Pay off home early (prepay mortgage)
Build wealth and give!

Author Topic: Dave Ramsey Plan  (Read 10469 times)

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Dave Ramsey Plan
« Reply #60 on: July 23, 2020, 07:31:05 PM »
Why have an apple vs an orange?

Not convinced. And I am your target audience.

A sound financial plan usually involves having a certain percentage in cash, cash equivalents, or other safe vehicles. If you understand how a properly designed overfunded whole life plan works, you would want that asset class for (at least a portion of) your safe money allocation.

But that's just one benefit of whole life, there are some other benefits that aren't available in any other financial product that I'm aware of (at least not in combination of those benefits).

Quote
investing in retirement accounts and mutual funds.
FTFY

Presumably you're talking about ROTH IRAs. And what does one do after the contributions were maxed? Or where does one put the safe money allocation of the portfolio?
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Dave Ramsey Plan
« Reply #61 on: July 23, 2020, 07:32:56 PM »
Do you recommend that people borrow against their home to invest? If not, why?

I don't recommend that, and not only because it would get me into trouble, but because I believe it isn't appropriate for me to recommend any sort of borrowing to anyone.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Online moko

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Re: Dave Ramsey Plan
« Reply #62 on: July 23, 2020, 07:39:05 PM »
Why have an apple vs an orange?
isn't the single goal to make money conservatively? If I didn't care about taste and all I cared about was nutrition the I'd eat which ever was available and is healthier.
If the process of how you make the money is enjoyable, then I understand your question. Since I don't gamble and the process of generating savings isn't what's enjoyable to me, I don't understand your question.

Has an overfunded WL policy ever performed better than a given 40 yr period of the market?
Using your g-d given right of stupidity is an option, not a requirement. Please use sparingly.

Online zh cohen

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Re: Dave Ramsey Plan
« Reply #63 on: July 23, 2020, 07:46:24 PM »
2 general points about Dave Ramsey;

1 - His program is based on the idea that עבד לוה לאיש מלוה. In his view and for the many people who follow his program (myself included) the cost of debt (and not just the financial cost) is not worth it

2 - Much of his advice only makes sense as part of his whole program. For example, if someone is planning on continuing to borrow money, it doesn't make sense for them to go crazy to pay off all their debt as quickly as possible.

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Dave Ramsey Plan
« Reply #64 on: July 23, 2020, 08:00:12 PM »
isn't the single goal to make money conservatively? If I didn't care about taste and all I cared about was nutrition the I'd eat which ever was available and is healthier.
If the process of how you make the money is enjoyable, then I understand your question. Since I don't gamble and the process of generating savings isn't what's enjoyable to me, I don't understand your question.

Has an overfunded WL policy ever performed better than a given 40 yr period of the market?

Here's another question for you. What performed better over the past 40 years? The S&P 500 or constant maturity treasuries? By how much? What was the level of risk?

Hint: https://res.mdpi.com/d_attachment/data/data-04-00091/article_deploy/data-04-00091.pdf

But that's just me having some fun with facts.

Back to your actual question. Could you please clarify some terms, so we can make sure we're speaking the same language:
1. Making money.
2. Conservatively.
3. "Past 40 years" (are you picking specific dates? If yes, why those dates? What if actual dates when access to funds is different?
« Last Edit: July 23, 2020, 08:05:23 PM by ExGingi »
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline Kobe bryent

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Re: Dave Ramsey Plan
« Reply #65 on: July 23, 2020, 08:07:32 PM »

Not convinced. And I am your target audience.


A sound financial plan usually involves having a certain percentage in cash, cash equivalents, or other safe vehicles. If you understand how a properly designed overfunded whole life plan works, you would want that asset class for (at least a portion of) your safe money allocation.

But that's just one benefit of whole life, there are some other benefits that aren't available in any other financial product that I'm aware of (at least not in combination of those benefits).
FTFY


Presumably you're talking about ROTH IRAs. And what does one do after the contributions were maxed? Or where does one put the safe money allocation of the portfolio?
Baby step number 3.

Online moko

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Re: Dave Ramsey Plan
« Reply #66 on: July 23, 2020, 08:11:43 PM »
Here's another question for you. What performed better over the past 40 years? The S&P 500 or constant maturity treasuries? By how much? What was the level of risk?

Hint: https://res.mdpi.com/d_attachment/data/data-04-00091/article_deploy/data-04-00091.pdf

But that's just me having some fun with facts.

Back to your actual question. Could you please clarify some terms, so we can make sure we're speaking the same language:
1. Making money.
2. Conservatively.
3. "Past 40 years" (are you picking specific dates? If yes, why those dates? What if actual dates when access to funds is different?
1. Relative security in retirement
2. Whatever seems to consistently make the best return over....
3. ANY given 40 yr period (normal period of retirement savings- 25-65/30-70)
Using your g-d given right of stupidity is an option, not a requirement. Please use sparingly.

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Dave Ramsey Plan
« Reply #67 on: July 23, 2020, 08:23:58 PM »
1. Relative security in retirement
2. Whatever seems to consistently make the best return over....
3. ANY given 40 yr period (normal period of retirement savings- 25-65/30-70)

Good thing I asked, because none of those correspond to my understanding/definition of the terms I sought clarification for.

I hope you do realize that you didn't answer my important questions in #3. I'm sure you do realize that there's a huge difference if said 40 year period ended at a bull market top or at a bear market bottom (or for that matter even close to those).
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline good sam

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Re: Dave Ramsey Plan
« Reply #68 on: July 23, 2020, 08:25:42 PM »
I don't recommend that, and not only because it would get me into trouble, but because I believe it isn't appropriate for me to recommend any sort of borrowing to anyone.
Lechatchila don't borrow but bidieved don't pay it down.

It's like the analysts who initiate coverage at Hold. What did you teach me?

If you don't care why would you comment?
HT: DMYD

Online zh cohen

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Re: Dave Ramsey Plan
« Reply #69 on: July 23, 2020, 08:26:41 PM »
I'm sure you do realize that there's a huge difference if said 40 year period ended at a bull market top or at a bear market bottom (or for that matter even close to those).

He said "any given 40 year period"

Online moko

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Re: Dave Ramsey Plan
« Reply #70 on: July 23, 2020, 08:30:46 PM »
He said "any given 40 year period"
I was starting to feel stupid
Using your g-d given right of stupidity is an option, not a requirement. Please use sparingly.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Dave Ramsey Plan
« Reply #71 on: July 23, 2020, 08:31:49 PM »
I know that on CB forums they consider this argument enough to reject everything Dave Ramsey says, but I think here we can have an honest discussion about the good and bad of his program.
Totally unfair. They tear him apart piece by piece.
They teach individuals to repair their credit and what rights they have for free.
I spent many years on that forum. My original impression was the forum was for deadbeats. I was 100% wrong.
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Offline YoelFried

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Re: Dave Ramsey Plan
« Reply #72 on: July 23, 2020, 08:37:33 PM »
"Don't take financial advice from broke people", Dave ramsey.

For all those that say that leverage is good, please post your net worth.

Net worth is calculated Assets minus liabilities.

Lines of credit or not assets.......

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Dave Ramsey Plan
« Reply #73 on: July 23, 2020, 08:41:26 PM »
He said "any given 40 year period"

I assume you do realize that a 40 year period that ended 3/9/2009 is very different than a 40 year period that ended 1/9/2020

Are you also ignoring the psychology of a serious drawdown a year or two prior to retirement?
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Online zh cohen

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Re: Dave Ramsey Plan
« Reply #74 on: July 23, 2020, 08:41:38 PM »
Totally unfair. They tear him apart piece by piece.

Then please bring up those points so that we can discuss them. I went there to look (when you sent me there last time we had this discussion) and the impression that I got was that people there felt that there was no need to address his arguments, because "he used to accept credit cards".

As to CB in general, I have nothing against them. Other than the Dave Ramsey threads, I've barely read anything there .