Author Topic: Are we going too far?  (Read 140411 times)

Offline Ver hut gazugt

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Re: Are we going too far?
« Reply #760 on: July 09, 2021, 10:15:32 AM »

Please join!


http://chng.it/6LcHHxwDCN


I think they should sue them. This is religious discrimination.

Offline aygart

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Re: Are we going too far?
« Reply #761 on: July 09, 2021, 10:31:27 AM »
But the stupid corporations will keep supporting the libtards, and send this great country to h3ll in a handbasket...
Amazing how these corporations are willing to sell their soul for a few bucks.


Wait, isn't that a liberal mantra?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Essen est zich

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Re: Are we going too far?
« Reply #762 on: July 09, 2021, 10:34:10 AM »

Please join!


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Maor started this petition to youtube YouTube and 1 other
By the grace of G-d,

Tammuz 27 5781
July the Seventh, 2021

245 years ago, on July fourth 1776, this great country was founded by a group of people of faith, representing thousands more who likewise drew their inspiration from a Divinely-given law at Sinai.

Starting from this historic moment, many rights were established for the citizens of this land, including the freedom of religion and freedom of speech which have, more than anything else, made this country a beacon of freedom, tolerance, and prosperity for the whole world.

In this light, it was most shocking, appalling and hurtful that 245 years later, YouTube, acting under the false pretense of protecting its users from so-called “hate speech,” has begun to remove videos that communicate Jewish values. These videos sought to contribute to the painful and emotionally loaded national debate on the matter of same-gender relationships, offering another social approach.

The Jewish viewpoint on same-gender relationships goes beyond the religious implications for an observant person (which should also be allowed expression in a society that sanctions religious freedom and freedom of speech), and also addresses the impact on the individual, touching on the various risks to his emotional and physical health and to his spiritual growth and search for inner peace.

At the same time, the Torah takes into account the seriousness of the discussion while remaining cognizant of the importance of upholding the self-respect and self-esteem of men and women. The Torah’s approach would be best summarized thus: You are not defined by your tendencies and habits. You are a free person who can choose to live the most productive life both for yourself and for society because a Divine spark resides within you.

Yet, YouTube removed these clips, claiming that they are a form of “hate speech”!

This is a ludicrous claim. The Torah views all human beings with the utmost respect, compassion, love, and care no matter what situation they find themselves in - even while calling their behavior into question.

Unfortunately, in recent times many people have been led to believe that any form of speech that questions their lifestyle is offensive and hateful. This is the furthest thing from the truth.

Hate is an emotion that is easily identifiable and so is hate speech.

Censoring Jews from publicizing words of Torah is an insensitive act and a disservice towards people that are struggling to reconcile their moral and religious identity with their current choices. To them, finding Torah guidance online would be like water on a parched soul and YouTube should not get in the way of people seeking help, from whatever approach it comes.

What about people of faith who choose to live their life in accordance with biblical standards? What about people searching for a religion-based answer to their inner dilemma? Should they not have access to answers that may help them lead a more harmonious life?

We urge the administration of YouTube to cease being a tool in the hands of ideologies which are totalitarian in nature and that see only their way and solution as legitimate.

We urge the administration of YouTube to distinguish between true hate speech (which unfortunately still exists) and “caring speech;” between words that stem from ill feelings towards others and words that come from a G-dly source that sees immense value in every individual.

We reiterate: the Torah’s words -- though addressing a sensitive and “thorny” subject -- are purely “caring speech.” This approach should serve as an example of how one can address a fault one sees in another in a compassionate and respectful way.

We respectfully request that they be once again made accessible for the world to see, hear and be inspired by.
Shloffen Shloft Zich

Offline aygart

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Re: Are we going too far?
« Reply #763 on: July 09, 2021, 10:34:56 AM »

I think they should sue them. This is religious discrimination.
But why can't they discriminate?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline YitzyS

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Re: Are we going too far?
« Reply #764 on: July 09, 2021, 11:48:23 AM »
You have no idea how much self-control it's taking for me not to make an anti-Chabad joke here...


Shoots, I just slipped.

Offline Ver hut gazugt

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Re: Are we going too far?
« Reply #765 on: July 09, 2021, 02:01:29 PM »
But why can't they discriminate?


Rhetorical?

Offline aygart

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Re: Are we going too far?
« Reply #766 on: July 09, 2021, 02:51:26 PM »


Rhetorical?
Not at all. Why is a private company not allowed to discriminate between viewpoints or censor speech they don't like?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Ver hut gazugt

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Re: Are we going too far?
« Reply #767 on: July 09, 2021, 03:12:41 PM »
Not at all. Why is a private company not allowed to discriminate between viewpoints or censor speech they don't like?


Can I kick out someone wearing a yamika or other religious garb out of my private store?
Or what if they are black can you kick them out ?

Offline aygart

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Re: Are we going too far?
« Reply #768 on: July 09, 2021, 03:42:25 PM »


Can I kick out someone wearing a yamika or other religious garb out of my private store?
Or what if they are black can you kick them out ?
Who are they kicking out for the way they look?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Ver hut gazugt

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Re: Are we going too far?
« Reply #769 on: July 09, 2021, 03:59:35 PM »
Who are they kicking out for the way they look?

They are kicking people out for there religious beliefs.

Offline aygart

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Re: Are we going too far?
« Reply #770 on: July 09, 2021, 05:03:28 PM »
They are kicking people out for there religious beliefs.
How so?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Are we going too far?
« Reply #771 on: July 09, 2021, 05:08:30 PM »
They are kicking people out for there religious beliefs.

If a evangelical walks into your store and starts saying what he believes will happen to you if you do not accept his deity as your own, can you remove him from your store or would that be kicking them out for their religious beliefs?

Offline Ver hut gazugt

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Re: Are we going too far?
« Reply #772 on: July 10, 2021, 11:22:36 PM »
If a evangelical walks into your store and starts saying what he believes will happen to you if you do not accept his deity as your own, can you remove him from your store or would that be kicking them out for their religious beliefs?

Good point, but this is very different, he is creating an uncomfortable environment for your other customers. If you had a bar on the other hand and some customers where evangelicals and you kicked them out for talking then yes it would be an issue.

The idea of Social media is telling people come talk at our “bar” and in this case they are specifically excluding people’s  religious beliefs from being discussed.

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Are we going too far?
« Reply #773 on: July 10, 2021, 11:38:11 PM »
Good point, but this is very different, he is creating an uncomfortable environment for your other customers. If you had a bar on the other hand and some customers where evangelicals and you kicked them out for talking then yes it would be an issue.

The idea of Social media is telling people come talk at our “bar” and in this case they are specifically excluding people’s  religious beliefs from being discussed.

I don't understand. What is the difference between a social media bar and a real bar? You seem to be saying if the religious talk makes people uncomfortable, then the religious person loses their "freedom of religion". Why doesn't the same apply to YouTube? They feel this is "hate speech" towards many of their viewers.

If your taaneh is that if they want everyone to come talk at the bar, let everyone come, including religious people, then fine. But if your taaneh is that government should enforce that, that's a path that will end up harming you more than it will help.

Offline aygart

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Re: Are we going too far?
« Reply #774 on: July 11, 2021, 12:44:11 AM »
Good point, but this is very different, he is creating an uncomfortable environment for your other customers. If you had a bar on the other hand and some customers where evangelicals and you kicked them out for talking then yes it would be an issue.

The idea of Social media is telling people come talk at our “bar” and in this case they are specifically excluding people’s  religious beliefs from being discussed.
Their free speech rights allow them to tell you that they don't allow this sort of religious speech.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline biobook

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Re: Are we going too far?
« Reply #775 on: July 11, 2021, 10:23:06 AM »

I think they should sue them. This is religious discrimination.
There have been attempts to ban kosher shechita and the import of kosher meat.
https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/european-court-of-justice-approves-belgian-kosher-slaughter-ban-652402
https://www.timesofisrael.com/uk-chief-rabbi-chilled-meat-ban-could-make-jewish-life-in-n-ireland-unviable/

There have been attempts to ban bris milah.
https://hamodia.com/2020/09/07/bill-ban-bris-milah-consideration-denmark/

And you're describing attempts to ban one person from creating one type of youtube video. 

Is this really the cause you think we should be fighting for?

Offline zh cohen

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Re: Are we going too far?
« Reply #776 on: July 11, 2021, 11:56:20 PM »
There have been attempts to ban kosher shechita and the import of kosher meat.
https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/european-court-of-justice-approves-belgian-kosher-slaughter-ban-652402
https://www.timesofisrael.com/uk-chief-rabbi-chilled-meat-ban-could-make-jewish-life-in-n-ireland-unviable/

There have been attempts to ban bris milah.
https://hamodia.com/2020/09/07/bill-ban-bris-milah-consideration-denmark/

And you're describing attempts to ban one person from creating one type of youtube video. 

Is this really the cause you think we should be fighting for?

This isn't about banning one person's YouTube video. This is about living in a world where mainstream (and until 5 minutes ago non-controversial) Jewish beliefs are labeled "hate speech" and people who should know better shrugging their shoulders.

Offline aygart

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Re: Are we going too far?
« Reply #777 on: July 12, 2021, 10:08:51 AM »
This isn't about banning one person's YouTube video. This is about living in a world where mainstream (and until 5 minutes ago non-controversial) Jewish beliefs are labeled "hate speech" and people who should know better shrugging their shoulders.
But what is the legal recourse when someone uses the free speech that we utilize to our benefit to do things we despise?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline ellemeno

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Re: Are we going too far?
« Reply #778 on: July 12, 2021, 10:31:08 AM »
But what is the legal recourse when someone uses the free speech that we utilize to our benefit to SAY things we despise?
FTFY
Ether plug your ears or denounce it, as long as it doesn't call for direct action.

Offline zh cohen

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Re: Are we going too far?
« Reply #779 on: July 12, 2021, 02:53:01 PM »
But what is the legal recourse when someone uses the free speech that we utilize to our benefit to do things we despise?

What to do about it is a separate question, but the first step is to realize that it is a major issue.

Also, the path from YouTube calling it hate speech to mosdos losing their tax exempt status is not very long...