Author Topic: Are we going too far?  (Read 154581 times)

Offline yelped

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Re: Are we going too far?
« Reply #1120 on: May 20, 2024, 10:58:53 AM »
What is the too far part?
The president of the US besmirching the USA as being racist.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Are we going too far?
« Reply #1121 on: May 20, 2024, 11:10:54 AM »
The president of the US besmirching the USA as being racist.
We are racist.  ::)
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Offline yelped

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Re: Are we going too far?
« Reply #1122 on: May 20, 2024, 11:21:29 AM »

Offline DaasTora

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Re: Are we going too far?
« Reply #1123 on: May 20, 2024, 02:01:32 PM »
We are racist.  ::)
Agree. Raising blacks above whites is definitely racism.
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Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Are we going too far?
« Reply #1124 on: May 20, 2024, 02:19:47 PM »
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/greg-abbott-pardoning-killer-of-black-lives-matter-protester-sends-chilling-message/ar-BB1mEEFu?ocid=msedgntp&pc=LCTS&cvid=a7a0d2ffb7fa49dea1eccf1917876e7d&ei=114
Greg Abbott pardoning killer of Black Lives Matter protester sends chilling message

I'm sure the NRA was up in arms (intended) that a a man was killed engaging in his second amendment right, and is now protesting the pardon, right?

Offline zh cohen

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Re: Are we going too far?
« Reply #1125 on: May 20, 2024, 05:43:48 PM »
I'm sure the NRA was up in arms (intended) that a a man was killed engaging in his second amendment right, and is now protesting the pardon, right?

There is a second amendment right to point a gun at someone to get them to do what you want?

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Are we going too far?
« Reply #1126 on: May 20, 2024, 05:47:00 PM »
There is a second amendment right to point a gun at someone to get them to do what you want?
No and then pulling the trigger and killing someone is murder, not self-defense.
You don't parole animals like that.
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Offline zh cohen

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Re: Are we going too far?
« Reply #1127 on: May 20, 2024, 05:49:16 PM »
No and then pulling the trigger and killing someone is murder, not self-defense.
You don't parole animals like that.

I think you missed my point. The guy who was just pardoned shot and killed a guy who was pointing a gun at him and demanding that he lower his car window.

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Are we going too far?
« Reply #1128 on: May 20, 2024, 05:49:58 PM »
There is a second amendment right to point a gun at someone to get them to do what you want?
I'm not well versed in the case by any stretch, but he was convicted beyond a reasonable doubt, and the pardon is not being made after seeing new evidence or even reviewing the evidence

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Are we going too far?
« Reply #1129 on: May 20, 2024, 05:52:39 PM »
I think you missed my point. The guy who was just pardoned shot and killed a guy who was pointing a gun at him and demanding that he lower his car window.
Not going to argue the case with you but the jury didn't see it that way with the evidence that was presented.
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Offline CountValentine

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Re: Are we going too far?
« Reply #1130 on: May 20, 2024, 05:55:41 PM »
I'm not well versed in the case by any stretch, but he was convicted beyond a reasonable doubt, and the pardon is not being made after seeing new evidence or even reviewing the evidence
What he did is replaced his personal opinion with the jury's verdict. He didn't even try and use a pretzel.
This is dangerous to give anyone that power. If a MAGA Gov will do it just think what a MAGA in the WH can/will do.
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Offline zh cohen

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Re: Are we going too far?
« Reply #1131 on: May 20, 2024, 06:00:39 PM »
the pardon is not being made after seeing new evidence or even reviewing the evidence

False. In Texas a pardon can only be given after a recommendation from the parole board, which reviewed the evidence and unanimously recommended the pardon.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Are we going too far?
« Reply #1132 on: May 20, 2024, 06:08:56 PM »
False. In Texas a pardon can only be given after a recommendation from the parole board, which reviewed the evidence and unanimously recommended the pardon.
He appointed the parole board. He wanted this done before the guy was even sentenced. :)
“Texas has one of the strongest ‘Stand Your Ground’ laws of self-defense that cannot be nullified by a jury or a progressive District Attorney. I thank the Board for its thorough investigation, and I approve their pardon recommendation,” Abbott said.

He is saying if he feels it was self-defense it does not matter what the jury says. What country is this guy from, Russia? Do you actually want to be taking this nutjobs side?

ETA: Just to show what a lunatic this Gov is they also restored his gun rights so he can murder again!!!
Lets also not forget the fact that this guy is a known racist.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2024, 06:16:56 PM by CountValentine »
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Offline zh cohen

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Re: Are we going too far?
« Reply #1133 on: May 20, 2024, 06:34:37 PM »
He appointed the parole board. He wanted this done before the guy was even sentenced. :)
“Texas has one of the strongest ‘Stand Your Ground’ laws of self-defense that cannot be nullified by a jury or a progressive District Attorney. I thank the Board for its thorough investigation, and I approve their pardon recommendation,” Abbott said.

He is saying if he feels it was self-defense it does not matter what the jury says. What country is this guy from, Russia? Do you actually want to be taking this nutjobs side?

This is a completely different argument than the one Yehuda57 made.

I disagree with your argument, but that is a question of opinion. (I believe that cases like these are exactly why the executive branch is given pardon power). His argument was wrong and what seems to me a perfect example of Gell-Manning amnesia.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Are we going too far?
« Reply #1134 on: May 20, 2024, 06:41:59 PM »
(I believe that cases like these are exactly why the executive branch is given pardon power).
To overturn the jury's verdict? Are you being serious?
There was no new evidence. There is a process to get a new trial or have a verdict thrown out.
This isn't Russia or China. 
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Offline zh cohen

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Re: Are we going too far?
« Reply #1135 on: May 20, 2024, 06:50:52 PM »
To overturn the jury's verdict? Are you being serious?

Yes. The purpose of the pardon power is to step in when the legal system gets to an unjust result. It certainly was never intended to give the executive the ability to reward donors, despite being used that way all to often.

What do you think the purpose of the pardon power is?

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Are we going too far?
« Reply #1136 on: May 20, 2024, 06:55:29 PM »
Yes. The purpose of the pardon power is to step in when the legal system gets to an unjust result. It certainly was never intended to give the executive the ability to reward donors, despite being used that way all to often.

What do you think the purpose of the pardon power is?
How did the legal system get to an unjust result in this case.
The Gov is replacing the jury's verdict with his personal opinion. That is not what a pardon is for.
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Offline zh cohen

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Re: Are we going too far?
« Reply #1137 on: May 20, 2024, 07:03:37 PM »
How did the legal system get to an unjust result in this case.
The Gov is replacing the jury's verdict with his personal opinion. That is not what a pardon is for.

So what is a pardon for?

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Are we going too far?
« Reply #1138 on: May 20, 2024, 07:08:05 PM »
So what is a pardon for?
Someone receives too harsh of a sentence based on similar crimes. The Jewish meat guy comes to mind.
Someone serving 50 years of a life sentence and you feel that is enough.
There was glaring mistakes in the trial or new evidence comes to light.
The list goes on and on.
What it should not be used for is to overturn the verdict of a jury because you didn't like the decision. That is pure insanity.

I would still like to know what was unjust in the case besides the Gov's political view.
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Offline zh cohen

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Re: Are we going too far?
« Reply #1139 on: May 20, 2024, 07:13:54 PM »
Someone receives too harsh of a sentence based on similar crimes. The Jewish meat guy comes to mind.
Someone serving 50 years of a life sentence and you feel that is enough.
There was glaring mistakes in the trial or new evidence comes to light.
The list goes on and on.

These are all examples of commutations, not pardons.