Is Florida less honest than China?

[Eb228]

What are you saying?

I'm saying that so what if the doctors begged the rabbanim to close. The rabbanim looked at the data the doctors provided and decided it wasn't the right step at that time.
And to suggest that's why ppl died is outright wrong

[Lurker]

I'm saying that so what if the doctors begged the rabbanim to close. The rabbanim looked at the data the doctors provided and decided it wasn't the right step at that time.
And to suggest that's why ppl died is outright wrong

IMO, and this may not be popular, any rov who thinks they should have the final say on medical issues doesn't deserve the title. V'rapoh y'rapeh isn't talking about rabbonim.

[yelped]

I'm saying that so what if the doctors begged the rabbanim to close. The rabbanim looked at the data the doctors provided and decided it wasn't the right step at that time.
And to suggest that's why ppl died is outright wrong

Ok. What is your source that Rabbanim can't make mistakes?

[Eb228]

IMO, and this may be kefirah, any rov who thinks they should have the final say on medical issues doesn't deserve the title. V'rapoh y'rapeh isn't talking about rabbonim.

FTFY

[yelped]

FTFY

Lol.

[Lurker]

FTFY

Source?

[Eb228]

Ok. What is your source that Rabbanim can't make mistakes?

Varapeh gives us the rav the right to take a doctors opinion into account, every single decision must be made by daas torah. There is no other opinion other than rabbanim.

That being said, every rav must know his place and some decisions (i.e. closing shuls) arent for a local shul rav, they are for the gedolai hador.

[yelped]

Varapeh gives us the rav the right to take a doctors opinion into account, every single decision must be made by daas torah. There is no other opinion other than rabbanim.

That being said, every rav must know his place and some decisions (i.e. closing shuls) arent for a local shul rav, they are for the gedolai hador.

You didn't bring a source.

[Eb228]

Ok. What is your source that Rabbanim can't make mistakes?

Of course they can, they're human.

But THEY must decide if they made a mistake or not.

If we can decide they made a mistake, what's their opinion worth?

[Euclid]

It's been a while since we had a good minyan hamster wheel.

[Eb228]

It's been a while since we had a good minyan hamster wheel.

I never weighed in on it then as I felt it was too sensitive while it was ongoing, so I missed out.

Now that it's basically back to normal, I wanna get my say!

[Lurker]

I never weighed in on it then as I felt it was too sensitive while it was ongoing, so I missed out.

Now that it's basically back to normal, I wanna get my say!

Go for it! But if you're going to call me a kofer, you better have some solid sources.

[yuneeq]

And you're suggesting that therefore ppl died, because doctors were right and rabbanim were wrong?

Amazing, so call your doctor next time you're not sure about if you need to repeat shmonei esreh, we can no longer trust these incompetent rabbanim.

Did you forget that rabbanim ended up deciding to close the shuls? Pick a narrative. Either they were mistaken for closing the shuls at all, or they're mistaken for doing it very late. Or is it that every single Rov closed at the exact perfect time, some weeks before others?

[Eb228]

You didn't bring a source.

My source is that we live our lives, every aspect of our lives, according to Torah. The way we know what the Torah wants is through our rabbanim.

If you're explaining vrapeh to mean that the doctors opinion supersedes the rabbanims in medical cases, you need the source not me.

[Euclid]

Of course they can, they're human.

But THEY must decide if they made a mistake or not.

If we can decide they made a mistake, what's their opinion worth?

https://www.kikar.co.il/abroad/362443.html
Gets good after the first 5 or so minutes.

Not sure if R' YY Jacobson is considered daas torah (this may depend on your stance on Trump, after his bracha by the event), but he says clearly in this video that it's time for rabbonim to admit that they made a mistake.

[Ergel]

Did you forget that rabbanim ended up deciding to close the shuls? Pick a narrative. Either they were mistaken for closing the shuls at all, or they're mistaken for doing it very late. Or is it that every single Rov closed at the exact perfect time, some weeks before others?

I'm not sure why you are bringing up anyone other than his daas torah, that's clearly all that matters

[Eb228]

Did you forget that rabbanim ended up deciding to close the shuls? Pick a narrative. Either they were mistaken for closing the shuls at all, or they're mistaken for doing it very late. Or is it that every single Rov closed at the exact perfect time, some weeks before others?

Every Rav that didn't say he was mistaken for not closing earlier, closed at the perfect time if that's what his daas Torah dictated as the right time.
There's allowed to be amchlokes.
The notion that there was 1 "right time" can only be true if you're going solely based on medical experts. Then it's black and white. Either it was spreading and dangerous or not.
But we go with daas torah, and every daas torah is allowed to have his opinion of when it is necessary or not.
They decided in early March the data didn't call for it, and as more data came out, some decided to close then. And some still didn't think it was warranted until a week later. And some thought it was never warranted.
Eilu Va'Eilu Divrei...

[Eb228]

I'm not sure why you are bringing up anyone other than his daas torah, that's clearly all that matters

Disclaimer: That is a complete misrepresentation of my opinions.
I follow my daas Torah.
I am machshiv every daas Torah and think you should follow yours.

There are certain things no daas torah can argue on (navi sheker).

[avromie7]

I'm not sure why you are bringing up anyone other than his daas torah, that's clearly all that matters

This is NOT the impression I got from any of @Eb228 posts.

[Eb228]

This is NOT the impression I got from any of @Eb228 posts.

That is correct, thanks!