Author Topic: Is Florida less honest than China?  (Read 8342 times)

Online Kobe bryent

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Re: Is Florida less honest than China?
« Reply #45 on: June 23, 2020, 11:39:33 AM »
oh there is so much u dont know, or choose to ignore
FTFY

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Re: Is Florida less honest than China?
« Reply #46 on: June 23, 2020, 12:51:42 PM »
oh there is so much u dont no, or choose to ignore
How coherent. Thank you for your valuable input.
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Re: Is Florida less honest than China?
« Reply #47 on: June 23, 2020, 12:51:51 PM »
Pretty cool how @Lurker caught onto this before anyone

This isn't really true, and the part that is can be easily explained. To start with, @yuneeq called out FL's deceit before I was even taking Covid as a serious threat. Additionally, the local media had to sue the state in order to get them to release LTCF numbers, which were finally released for the first time in mid-April, so to say I was on it before anyone else isn't 100% accurate. I happen to live in FL, so I have a vested interest in FL's stats, but for the first month or so I was primarily focused on the places where the drama was: NY Metro, and Italy. I only started really looking into FL's numbers more closely when people from metro NY started pointing here as an example of what they'd like to see from Cuomo, Muprhy, et al. The numbers didn't make sense to me, so I tried figuring out how it was possible. When people started raising flags about how NY's numbers may be manipulated and skewed, I thought about what the motivations may be in NY, and what FL's motivations might be to do the opposite. To date, I do not have a single shred of concrete evidence that FL's numbers are fudged. All I have is a long list of things FL isn't making public, along with numbers and charts that don't match anything we know about the spread of this virus anywhere in the world. If omission is lying, this thread will have plenty of content.

I would just like to point out, that while NY's possible manipulation of data is really irrelevant to FL's situation, anyone who believes that it happened cannot deny that it is possible in FL, as well. The how and the why will vary, because different people have different abilities and motivations. But if you think NY played with the numbers because of money and politics, it would be dishonest to dismiss out of hand that FL is doing the same thing.
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Re: Is Florida less honest than China?
« Reply #48 on: June 23, 2020, 01:08:29 PM »
Starting from February

First, Florida wouldn't release any info about how many people they suspect may have COVID.

Don't worry about visiting Florida! People in Florida are immune to Coronavirus, as long as censorship is in place.
 
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/health-care/article240390676.html

Then, the news broke the story about a confirmed case but nothing was announced by Florida, despite claiming that they would report it.

1st case in Florida? Censored?

https://new.thescoopradioshow.com/concern-in-sarasota-county-after-a-document-on-doctors-hospital-letter-head-advises-the-public-that-a-presumptive-case-has-tested-positive-for-coronavirus/

Even worse, the health dept called the news report a hoax, and the governor didn't announce the first confirmed cases for than 24 hours. That's pretty slimy if you ask me. "ABC Action News first learned of reports of a coronavirus patient at a Sarasota hospital at 9:30 a.m. on Sunday, but when a reporter called about the case, the Sarasota County Health Department dismissed the report as a hoax."

Censored, indeed. 
If you live in/visiting Florida, do you trust the public officials to tell the truth? Does this censorship make us safer?

Great quote from the original article -  "And if there’s a confirmed case, it will absolutely be reported.” -Surgeon General Scott Rivkees

There were people with symptoms - for example a woman that visited Italy - that were refused testing - https://miami.cbslocal.com/2020/03/02/coronavirus-confusion-miami-woman-allegedly-denied-proper-testing/

Then you had all the lawsuits to get COVID data released, the fired data scientist because she refused to manipulate the dashboard, the governors continuous claims that COVID isn't spreading because they are increasing testing, despite the positive rates going up, blaming the increases on young people, despite older people getting infected at a higher rate.

For what reason would anyone believe anything positive coming out of Florida after all this dishonesty?
« Last Edit: June 23, 2020, 01:12:04 PM by yuneeq »

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Re: Is Florida less honest than China?
« Reply #49 on: June 23, 2020, 01:15:36 PM »
For what reason would anyone believe anything positive coming out of Florida after all this dishonesty?

FTFY
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Re: Is Florida less honest than China?
« Reply #50 on: June 23, 2020, 01:48:56 PM »
Don't worry, not upset at you at all, just can't stand these annoying politicians.

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Re: Is Florida less honest than China?
« Reply #51 on: June 23, 2020, 02:50:12 PM »
I don't see evidence that the emergency rooms are being overwhelmed and the hospitals are overloaded.

Miami Dade country mayor's are much more territorial than NYC.

So you have all these individual mayors of small cities and I feel that they are more attuned with reality He requirement for masks is very enforced.

Ultimately the key is to get this down untill a vaccine comes along.

I don't want permanent lung scarring etc .

The fatality rate is plummeting and recovery rates are faster.

Will Florida achieve some kind of immunity ? I dunno even at 3k a day stable that's 90k a month.

In a state of 22 million that's nothing.




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Re: Is Florida less honest than China?
« Reply #52 on: June 23, 2020, 03:25:23 PM »
I’ve made this point before, but it doesn’t seem to have gotten through, so I’ll make it again: for a random Crowder who has no personal experience to rely upon they can believe whatever “facts” they’re fed but there’s no excuse for a frum Yid living in the Tri-State area (not under a rock) to not realize just how devastating the death toll is.

Just look at the anecdotal evidence. Look at how many new yesomim you know of personally, how many people Areivim is collecting for, how many Chesed Fund pages were started, how many Gedolim and Admorim were niftar. It truly defies belief.
The fact that there were many deaths doesn't mean the numbers aren't fudged.

Which part of this is hard to understand? Anecdotal stories don't make up for the massive excess death numbers being seen worldwide. A negative test is meaningless as the testing is not accurate. What is accurate is the total death toll.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronavirus-missing-deaths.html

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/04/16/tracking-covid-19-excess-deaths-across-countries

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-53073046
This discussion came up multiple times, it's entirely possible that many reported COVID deaths aren't really COVID and many deaths not reported as COVID are really COVID. I would be interested to see which causes make up the excess deaths.

I don't see evidence that the emergency rooms are being overwhelmed and the hospitals are overloaded.

Miami Dade country mayor's are much more territorial than NYC.

So you have all these individual mayors of small cities and I feel that they are more attuned with reality He requirement for masks is very enforced.

Ultimately the key is to get this down untill a vaccine comes along.

I don't want permanent lung scarring etc .


The fatality rate is plummeting and recovery rates are faster.

Will Florida achieve some kind of immunity ? I dunno even at 3k a day stable that's 90k a month.

In a state of 22 million that's nothing.

That's a personal decision you and everyone else should make. The only job government should have here is to make sure the hospital system doesn't get overwhelmed.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

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Re: Is Florida less honest than China?
« Reply #53 on: June 23, 2020, 03:28:11 PM »
The fact that there were many deaths doesn't mean the numbers aren't fudged.
 This discussion came up multiple times, it's entirely possible that many reported COVID deaths aren't really COVID and many deaths not reported as COVID are really COVID. I would be interested to see which causes make up the increase in deaths.

Who cares. The point is more people are dead - is it that suddenly more people are dropping dead from depression (this is not to minimize to depression or the extreme affects of lockdown)? Or is the more likely that people are dying of Covid, irrelevant of what it says on their death certificate?
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Re: Is Florida less honest than China?
« Reply #54 on: June 23, 2020, 03:33:25 PM »

 That's a personal decision you and everyone else should make. The only job government should have here is to make sure the hospital system doesn't get overwhelmed.
Have any hospital systems actually been overwhelmed? I mean in the USA....?
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Re: Is Florida less honest than China?
« Reply #55 on: June 23, 2020, 03:33:55 PM »
Who cares. The point is more people are dead - is it that suddenly more people are dropping dead from depression (this is not to minimize to depression or the extreme affects of lockdown)? Or is the more likely that people are dying of Covid, irrelevant of what it says on their death certificate?
In all likelihood it's COVID, but we won't know until we know where the excess deaths are coming from. We shouldn't be screaming at people who say something based on the fact that many reported COVID deaths are really not COVID, we can correct them based on what we know but it's not like they're making it up with no evidence.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

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Re: Is Florida less honest than China?
« Reply #56 on: June 23, 2020, 03:35:16 PM »
Have any hospital systems actually been overwhelmed? I mean in the USA....?
In NYC arguably. The preparation for an influx of COVID patients probably caused many of the excess deaths.
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Re: Is Florida less honest than China?
« Reply #57 on: June 23, 2020, 03:37:23 PM »
In NYC arguably. The preparation for an influx of COVID patients probably caused many of the excess deaths.
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Re: Is Florida less honest than China?
« Reply #58 on: June 23, 2020, 03:38:29 PM »
That's a personal decision you and everyone else should make. The only job government should have here is to make sure the hospital system doesn't get overwhelmed.

This right here is about to take this thread way off topic, but it's been bothering me a lot lately. (I want to clarify that I don't know @avromie7's position on this, I'm just quoting him because it serves my purpose.) Why is it that people who express shock and outrage at the idea of government interfering with our lives and businesses also expect the government and police to keep them safe? IMO, once you've determined that it is the government's job to protect the public, you've moved yourself into a grey area where you're arbitrarily setting the line where it's convenient to you, with complete disregard to where others need or want that line to be. That's not to say you can't have an opinion, but line seems to move daily, and the complete disbelief at the line not being exactly where individuals want it to be at that moment on that particular subject is head-scratching.
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Re: Is Florida less honest than China?
« Reply #59 on: June 23, 2020, 03:39:20 PM »
In NYC arguably. The preparation for an influx of COVID patients probably caused many of the excess deaths.
That would be from the panic.... and neglecting patients who were there before.

The actual system never got close to capacity. The Javits Center had 1000 beds yet over a span few months saw about 1200 patients. The Hospital ship saw 75 the entire time it was there.

Maybe there are concerns about where particular patients were sent but there was never a shortage of beds
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