Author Topic: Is Florida less honest than China?  (Read 35585 times)

Offline biobook

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Re: Is Florida less honest than China?
« Reply #180 on: July 05, 2020, 01:40:15 PM »
7 day total from Mon - Sun: 59,039 new cases (8,434/day). That includes 3 days with over 10k, and a new US record for new cases in a day in any state of 11,463 on Sat.

For some context, on June 5, FL had reported 61,487 total cases since March 1. They've added 138,624 in the last 30 days, with 42.5% of those in the last 7 days.
Or, as the Miami Herald put it today:

It took three months, from early March to June 22, for Florida to cross 100,000 new confirmed COVID-19 cases.

It took less than two weeks for the state to go from 100,000 to 200,000 cases — and the positive test rate keeps rising.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article244011507.html#storylink=cpy

Offline S209

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Re: Is Florida less honest than China?
« Reply #181 on: July 05, 2020, 01:49:25 PM »
For a while I was posting the daily number of positives in Lakewood. I stopped them a while ago because they were insignificant. Here are the last week of daily numbers of positives in Lakewood:
 0, 1, 6, 6, 10, 9 , 5.
When I stopped posting a while back the average was in the teens. Let data and logic be the guide rather than unsubstantiated guesswork.
So you’re on the side of evidence and data, and anyone who says some caution is perhaps still warranted is relying on unsubstantiated guesswork? Got it. Thanks for making yourself clear. (Remind me, did someone once say 90% of Lakewood had it?)

When you stopped posting numbers many if not all of the cases were old cases with lingering virus and not from the frum community. The cases now are presumably all completely new cases, and from what I’m hearing they’re largely (all?) frum people. I was in Friendly urgent care on Friday and they told me they saw 4 new positive cases this week from the frum community. While waiting, two people came in with their children with fever and shortness of breath and they were rushed in to get rapids. I’m unaware of their results.
Quote from: YitzyS
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Offline Yard sale

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Re: Is Florida less honest than China?
« Reply #182 on: July 05, 2020, 02:50:06 PM »
So you’re on the side of evidence and data, and anyone who says some caution is perhaps still warranted is relying on unsubstantiated guesswork? Got it. Thanks for making yourself clear. (Remind me, did someone once say 90% of Lakewood had it?)

When you stopped posting numbers many if not all of the cases were old cases with lingering virus and not from the frum community. The cases now are presumably all completely new cases, and from what I’m hearing they’re largely (all?) frum people. I was in Friendly urgent care on Friday and they told me they saw 4 new positive cases this week from the frum community. While waiting, two people came in with their children with fever and shortness of breath and they were rushed in to get rapids. I’m unaware of their results.
Caution is reasonable though the degree of caution warranted is debatable. Saying that 8 positives is the tip of the iceberg and unbeknownst to us the 8 probably morphed into 16, 32, 64, 128, 256 etc. is guesswork and is based on the facts at this time.

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Re: Is Florida less honest than China?
« Reply #183 on: July 05, 2020, 02:52:52 PM »
Caution is reasonable though the degree of caution warranted is debatable. Saying that 8 positives is the tip of the iceberg and unbeknownst to us the 8 probably morphed into 16, 32, 64, 128, 256 etc. is guesswork and is not Bourne our by the numbers at this time.

I think this is a misunderstanding. No one said it already morphed into those numbers. They said that the lack of concern now will like be replicated as we reach those benchmarks, saying, "it's only 16/32/64 etc." The concern is that by the time alarm bells start going off, it may be too late for the precautions to have a significant enough effect.
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Offline S209

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Re: Is Florida less honest than China?
« Reply #184 on: July 05, 2020, 03:02:56 PM »
Caution is reasonable though the degree of caution warranted is debatable. Saying that 8 positives is the tip of the iceberg and unbeknownst to us the 8 probably morphed into 16, 32, 64, 128, 256 etc. is guesswork and is based on the facts at this time.
I guess the real question is, what numbers do you consider warranting concern? It went from 0 to now probably dozens (based on those numbers you posted). That’s presumably only people who are already showing symptoms. So at what point do we enact some (small impact, high reward) restrictions? Encourage more outdoors, masks indoors in close quarters, some social distancing?
Quote from: YitzyS
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Offline Yard sale

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Re: Is Florida less honest than China?
« Reply #185 on: July 05, 2020, 03:26:51 PM »
I think this is a misunderstanding. No one said it already morphed into those numbers. They said that the lack of concern now will like be replicated as we reach those benchmarks, saying, "it's only 16/32/64 etc." The concern is that by the time alarm bells start going off, it may be too late for the precautions to have a significant enough effect.
I hear. So they aren’t afraid we will reach hundreds of numbers without it being reflected in the daily official count, rather that increasing numbers will be continually ignored? How do you solve that by trying to get people to pay attention when the numbers are still low?

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Re: Is Florida less honest than China?
« Reply #186 on: July 05, 2020, 03:32:22 PM »
I hear. So they aren’t afraid we will reach hundreds of numbers without it being reflected in the daily official count, rather that increasing numbers will be continually ignored? How do you solve that by trying to get people to pay attention when the numbers are still low?

They are afraid it will get there without it showing up in the official count, which is why they want everyone to start taking small precautions, like masks and keeping gatherings outdoors as much as possible. The fear isn't that we're at 250 today. The fear is that by the time 40 people have symptoms and test positive, they will have already spread it to 250. We're at 8 officially right now, and the fear is that there are 4 or 5 times that number walking around in an asymptomatic state. Based on @S209's observation, it's very possible the official count will be higher by tomorrow.
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Online CountValentine

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Re: Is Florida less honest than China?
« Reply #187 on: July 05, 2020, 03:36:58 PM »
Wow Florida is going bad!
Hashem should help everyone
FL isn't the only state.
Only on DDF does 24/6 mean 24/5/half/half

Offline Yard sale

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Re: Is Florida less honest than China?
« Reply #188 on: July 05, 2020, 03:39:44 PM »
I guess the real question is, what numbers do you consider warranting concern? It went from 0 to now probably dozens (based on those numbers you posted). That’s presumably only people who are already showing symptoms. So at what point do we enact some (small impact, high reward) restrictions? Encourage more outdoors, masks indoors in close quarters, some social distancing?
It’s not that it went from 0 to dozens. The numbers are the new positives in Lakewood recorded each day. I just gave a sampling of the last 7 days, one of which happened to have 0 positives. Going earlier there were days with 3 new positives, days with 5,4,6 etc. per day so nothing has really budged in weeks other than the recent few frum cases among the numbers as was previously mentioned. It’s not that we went from 0 to dozens. We held pretty much steady over the past few weeks (and are actually down from when I was posting them in late May/ early June) .

Online aygart

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Re: Is Florida less honest than China?
« Reply #189 on: July 05, 2020, 03:52:34 PM »
This is exactly why we can't compare what happened then to now.
Yes,but can we compare to late February early March?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Online avromie7

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Re: Is Florida less honest than China?
« Reply #190 on: July 05, 2020, 04:18:09 PM »
Yes,but can we compare to late February early March?
Or maybe even earlier. One thing is certain, we know what's going on right now and we can keep on top of it with real time data, unlike the the first time around.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

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Re: Is Florida less honest than China?
« Reply #191 on: July 05, 2020, 04:52:02 PM »
Or maybe even earlier. One thing is certain, we know what's going on right now and we can keep on top of it with real time data, unlike the the first time around.
Yes, we can, but will we? Will everyone who is willing to jump on every single hypothesis to say that we are done and accept it as full fact even when they contradict each other actually stop doing that if it cv becomes needed?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Online avromie7

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Re: Is Florida less honest than China?
« Reply #192 on: July 06, 2020, 09:22:12 AM »
Yes, we can, but will we? Will everyone who is willing to jump on every single hypothesis to say that we are done and accept it as full fact even when they contradict each other actually stop doing that if it cv becomes needed?
Time will tell, the freakouts about 3 cases isn't helping. With the experiences of the past few months, doctors should be able to put out guidance as the situation evolves and if need be rabbanim can push everyone to follow the guidance.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Online Euclid

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Re: Is Florida less honest than China?
« Reply #193 on: July 06, 2020, 09:42:45 AM »
Time will tell, the freakouts about 3 cases isn't helping. With the experiences of the past few months, doctors should be able to put out guidance as the situation evolves and if need be rabbanim can push everyone to follow the guidance.
I don't share the same confidence that this will happen.

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Re: Is Florida less honest than China?
« Reply #194 on: July 06, 2020, 11:01:15 AM »
I don't share the same confidence that this will happen.
If rabbanim don't feel it's necessary, why should regular people?
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Online Euclid

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Is Florida less honest than China?
« Reply #195 on: July 06, 2020, 11:04:21 AM »
If rabbanim don't feel it's necessary, why should regular people?
Because we saw how this played out the first time around, where all the doctors (save for one very prominent pediatrician) begged the rabbanim to close the shuls...and they didn't.

Offline Eb228

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Re: Is Florida less honest than China?
« Reply #196 on: July 06, 2020, 11:27:28 AM »
Because we saw how this played out the first time around, where all the doctors (save for one very prominent pediatrician) begged the rabbanim to close the shuls...and they didn't.

And you're suggesting that therefore ppl died, because doctors were right and rabbanim were wrong?

Amazing, so call your doctor next time you're not sure about if you need to repeat shmonei esreh, we can no longer trust these incompetent rabbanim.

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Re: Is Florida less honest than China?
« Reply #197 on: July 06, 2020, 11:28:17 AM »
Yes,but can we compare to late February early March?

No, because we didn't have a sizable percentage of the population with anti bodies at that point in time.

Offline yelped

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Re: Is Florida less honest than China?
« Reply #198 on: July 06, 2020, 11:30:52 AM »
And you're suggesting that therefore ppl died, because doctors were right and rabbanim were wrong?

Amazing, so call your doctor next time you're not sure about if you need to repeat shmonei esreh, we can no longer trust these incompetent rabbanim.
What are you saying?

Offline Eb228

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Re: Is Florida less honest than China?
« Reply #199 on: July 06, 2020, 11:32:18 AM »
Because we saw how this played out the first time around, where all the doctors (save for one very prominent pediatrician) begged the rabbanim to close the shuls...and they didn't.
And you're suggesting that therefore ppl died, because doctors were right and rabbanim were wrong?

Amazing, so call your doctor next time you're not sure about if you need to repeat shmonei esreh, we can no longer trust these incompetent rabbanim.

Full disclaimer: My Daas Torah says that many fewer ppl would have died had we kept shuls open straight through and had the zchus of tefillah bitzibur bbeis midrash on our side. And that it is terrible hashkafa to believe that anyone was harmed from going to shul.

I know that it's not popular opinion on here, and I'm talking to those whose rabbanim ended thinking they should be closed, are you suggesting they were wrong at that time? Don't you trust your rav is supposed to make any and all decisions and has a special siyatta dishmaya in klal matters?