Is Florida less honest than China?

[yuneeq]

That's not a decision for an individual to make, its for a rabbi/gadol. That's the biggest churban of the whole corona was everyone thinking they should be making their own decisions about tefilla btizbur and other such issues. It wasn't our place and still isn't are place.

How’d you manage to miss the multiple times I mentioned that this was the opinion of all the gedolim?

[Lurker]

How’d you manage to miss the multiple times I mentioned that this was the opinion of all the gedolim?

It's a recurring theme:

Your reading comprehension needs some work.

[yaakov35]

How’d you manage to miss the multiple times I mentioned that this was the opinion of all the gedolim?

Was definitely not the opinion of all. Read through these threads, everyone giving opinions about minyanim Yeshivas etc. It is not our place to make Any of these decisions. If you feel you shouldn't daven with an indoor minyan that's fine, but God does not care about your opinion. מסורה is a very integral part of yiddishkeit and part of that is listening to our rabbanim. It is very problematic for people to be making their own decisions in yiddishkeit bases on how they feel. My rov told older people not to come to shul when he felt there was a health concern and after pesach he told everyone its safe to come back. Nobody had the audacity to question his leadership. People here who were busy since early March making sure shuls are closed, getting authorities involved etc. Very sad times when it comes to this.

[yaakov35]

It's a recurring theme:

We get it, only a handful of people who post know what their talking about and everyone else sucks, amen.

[yuneeq]

Was definitely not the opinion of all. Read through these threads, everyone giving opinions about minyanim Yeshivas etc. It is not our place to make Any of these decisions. If you feel you shouldn't daven with an indoor minyan that's fine, but God does not care about your opinion. מסורה is a very integral part of yiddishkeit and part of that is listening to our rabbanim. It is very problematic for people to be making their own decisions in yiddishkeit bases on how they feel. My rov told older people not to come to shul when he felt there was a health concern and after pesach he told everyone its safe to come back. Nobody had the audacity to question his leadership. People here who were busy since early March making sure shuls are closed, getting authorities involved etc. Very sad times when it comes to this.

All the gedolim that I heard about, were pro-closing shuls at a certain point. Rewriting history and mocking their concern for tefillah betzibur is simply disgusting.

[yaakov35]

All the gedolim that I heard about, were pro-closing shuls at a certain point. Rewriting history and mocking their concern for tefillah betzibur is simply disgusting.

You know thats not true because you were busy yelling at the ones who weren't, and don't put words in my mouth.  I was talking about individual people making decisions not rabbanim. Look on another thread someone said all shuls in israel should be closed, that is whats problematic.

[avromie7]

All the gedolim that I heard about, were pro-closing shuls at a certain point.

Even if true that doesn't change this, the details (when and how to close, when and how to reopen) are just as important.

That's not a decision for an individual to make, its for a rabbi/gadol. That's the biggest churban of the whole corona was everyone thinking they should be making their own decisions about tefilla btizbur and other such issues. It wasn't our place and still isn't are place.

[yuneeq]

You know thats not true because you were busy yelling at the ones who weren't, and don't put words in my mouth.  I was talking about individual people making decisions not rabbanim. Look on another thread someone said all shuls in israel should be closed, that is whats problematic.

If you're following the thread, @Eb228's rov was mocking the people who don't care about tefillah betzibur because they allowed the shuls to be shut, when in fact - most gedolim were pushing to shut shuls. There was no nuance at all and that's my issue.

[grodnoking]

Miami Dade scaled back their scale back a little:
"On-site dining at restaurants and cafeterias is limited to outdoor service only between the hours of 6 a.m. and 10 p.m. each day. Such establishments may operate their kitchens between the hours of 10 p.m. each night and 6 a.m. the next morning only for the purpose of providing delivery, pick-up, room service, or take out services."
Originally he closed them down completely.

This is a funny one thou:
"Daytime and overnight occupancy for short-term vacation rentals is now set at a maximum of two persons per bedroom plus two additional persons per property not to exceed a maximum of 10 persons. New rental agreements can only be on a monthly basis."

[Lurker]

Miami Dade scaled back their scale back a little:
"On-site dining at restaurants and cafeterias is limited to outdoor service only between the hours of 6 a.m. and 10 p.m. each day. Such establishments may operate their kitchens between the hours of 10 p.m. each night and 6 a.m. the next morning only for the purpose of providing delivery, pick-up, room service, or take out services."
Originally he closed them down completely.

This is a funny one thou:
"Daytime and overnight occupancy for short-term vacation rentals is now set at a maximum of two persons per bedroom plus two additional persons per property not to exceed a maximum of 10 persons. New rental agreements can only be on a monthly basis."

I actually like the monthly rental rule. Helps the whole country, IMO.

[S209]

My Daas Torah says.... that it is terrible hashkafa to believe that anyone was harmed from going to shul.

https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/1883545/horrifying-virus-carrier-attended-shul-despite-diagnosis-leading-to-death-of-rav-shmuel-ashkenazi-ztl.html

Just putting this here.

[PlatinumGuy]

Full disclaimer: My Daas Torah says ..... that it is terrible hashkafa to believe that anyone was harmed from going to shul.

Why not go a step further and claim it's terrible to believe anybody was harmed because they were Jewish?

[Eb228]

This can't be left unanswered.
Why you think it's ok to skew someone's words like that is beyond me.

I think I was pretty clear (as in read the full text of what I posted) that his Deah was that Shuls should have stayed open with safety measures in place (masks, social dsitancing, no entry if sick) just at least like liquor stores were. And that it would be wrong to say that anyone can be harmed from that.

If someone knowingly has it and came anyway, he is a Rodef. And no one claims someone can't be killed in a shul.
We all remember Har Nof. etc.

[Eb228]

Why not go a step further and claim it's terrible to believe anybody was harmed because they were Jewish?

Beacuase I never heard that from Daas Torah.
If you did, you definitely should believe that.

If you want to ask this Daas Torah his opinion on that, PM me, I'll give you his number.

Not sure why you make that comparison on your own though.

[Yard sale]

This can't be left unanswered.
Why you think it's ok to skew someone's words like that is beyond me.

I think I was pretty clear (as in read the full text of what I posted) that his Deah was that Shuls should have stayed open with safety measures in place (masks, social dsitancing, no entry if sick) just at least like liquor stores were. And that it would be wrong to say that anyone can be harmed from that.

If someone knowingly has it and came anyway, he is a Rodef. And no one claims someone can't be killed in a shul.
We all remember Har Nof. etc.

Is it wrong to comment on that Da’as Torah and say that the practicalities were very complicated? Based on what took place when shuls first opened in Lakewood, even if in theory a shul shouldn’t be treated worsen than a liquor store, in practice there is little chance that the rules would have been adhered to, especially since so many mispalelim even in a single shul follow so many different Da’as Torah’s, and all too many of them unfortunately instead of Da’as Torah, worship at the alter of Sean and Rush, who at the time were calling it a conspiracy and as harmless as the flu....

[CountValentine]

...worship at the alter of Sean and Rush, who at the time were calling it a conspiracy and as harmless as the flu....

[PlatinumGuy]

Beacuase I never heard that from Daas Torah.
If you did, you definitely should believe that.

If you want to ask this Daas Torah his opinion on that, PM me, I'll give you his number.

Not sure why you make that comparison on your own though.

Was Korach not Daas Torah? His disciples were still punished. Daas Torah is not the end-all.

ETA: whether or not somebody was infected (harmed) from going to shul has nothing to do with Torah or Daas Torah.

[avromie7]

In practice there is little chance that the rules would have been adhered to, especially since so many mispalelim even in a single shul follow so many different Da’as Torah’s, and all too many of them unfortunately instead of Da’as Torah, worship at the alter of Sean and Rush, who at the time were calling it a conspiracy and as harmless as the flu....

The rav should have the final say on what happens in his shul. If people want to be more machmir based on a psak they got or their own feelings they're entitled to, but no one should be more meikal.

[S209]

This can't be left unanswered.
Why you think it's ok to skew someone's words like that is beyond me.

I think I was pretty clear (as in read the full text of what I posted) that his Deah was that Shuls should have stayed open with safety measures in place (masks, social dsitancing, no entry if sick) just at least like liquor stores were. And that it would be wrong to say that anyone can be harmed from that.

That’s not what you said at all. Here is the full text

Full disclaimer: My Daas Torah says that many fewer ppl would have died had we kept shuls open straight through and had the zchus of tefillah bitzibur bbeis midrash on our side. And that it is terrible hashkafa to believe that anyone was harmed from going to shul.

I know that it's not popular opinion on here, and I'm talking to those whose rabbanim ended thinking they should be closed, are you suggesting they were wrong at that time? Don't you trust your rav is supposed to make any and all decisions and has a special siyatta dishmaya in klal matters?

[avromie7]

That’s not what you said at all. Here is the full text

Do you believe eventhough G-D decided his time is up he would still be alive if he hadn't gone to shul?