Author Topic: What is FL hiding?  (Read 27677 times)

Offline yaakov35

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Re: What is FL hiding?
« Reply #40 on: July 10, 2020, 03:51:55 PM »
If we’re lucky - we got right to the brink of disaster (in terms of hospitals being overrun and increased mortality due to sheer overwhelmed systems) and the cases decrease naturally with time and burning itself out. If we’re unlucky - we are in for a very scary next few months. I hope and think the former will be the case, it is entirely feasible that the latter will occur. The prudent thing to do at this point is shut things down (here in the high prevalence zones) until things are somewhat under better control. Not forever, but for some reasonable amount of time until hospitals and cases decrease to a scientifically safer level.
The former is what happened in NY, so hopefully its the same and things don't get too crazy.

Offline S209

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Re: What is FL hiding?
« Reply #41 on: July 10, 2020, 04:03:06 PM »
The former is what happened in NY, so hopefully its the same and things don't get too crazy.
According to many posters on DDF what actually killed many of the patients in NY/NJ was doctors and nurses being overwhelmed so let hope that doesn’t happen in Florida as well.
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Re: What is FL hiding?
« Reply #42 on: July 10, 2020, 04:04:07 PM »
If we’re lucky - we got right to the brink of disaster (in terms of hospitals being overrun and increased mortality due to sheer overwhelmed systems) and the cases decrease naturally with time and burning itself out. If we’re unlucky - we are in for a very scary next few months. I hope and think the former will be the case, it is entirely feasible that the latter will occur. The prudent thing to do at this point is shut things down (here in the high prevalence zones) until things are somewhat under better control. Not forever, but for some reasonable amount of time until hospitals and cases decrease to a scientifically safer level.

I share your hope, but not your optimism. I don't think you'll see the shut downs you think are necessary, and I don't even think you'll see the basic precautions that are crucial to avoid a spiral. I really hope I'm wrong.

The former is what happened in NY, so hopefully its the same and things don't get too crazy.

The former happened in NY only through Draconian measures, and much more widespread compliance than we're seeing in FL right now. We're as open now in Phase 2 with record high cases and shrinking hospital resources as NY is now in Phase 3 with under 1000 cases per day and relatively few Covid hospitalizations.
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Offline YankyDoodle

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Re: What is FL hiding?
« Reply #43 on: July 10, 2020, 04:19:59 PM »
I share your hope, but not your optimism. I don't think you'll see the shut downs you think are necessary, and I don't even think you'll see the basic precautions that are crucial to avoid a spiral. I really hope I'm wrong.

The former happened in NY only through Draconian measures, and much more widespread compliance than we're seeing in FL right now. We're as open now in Phase 2 with record high cases and shrinking hospital resources as NY is now in Phase 3 with under 1000 cases per day and relatively few Covid hospitalizations.

Oh, I quite agree. If we are unlucky and the cases continue to escalate I am very concerned that the government and people in general have lost their ability to recognize the seriousness and the shutdowns are unlikely to happen effectively. It’s the same reason some people don’t vaccinate - first phase was a case of the boy who cried wolf (outside of NY, Cali) and in NYC they shut down fairly effectively and therefore didn’t have casualties nearly as bad as it could have been. Now people are unlikely to recognize how bad it can get in a worst case scenario (ala Italy).

Offline yuneeq

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Re: What is FL hiding?
« Reply #44 on: July 10, 2020, 04:24:28 PM »
Oh, I quite agree. If we are unlucky and the cases continue to escalate I am very concerned that the government and people in general have lost their ability to recognize the seriousness and the shutdowns are unlikely to happen effectively. It’s the same reason some people don’t vaccinate - first phase was a case of the boy who cried wolf (outside of NY, Cali) and in NYC they shut down fairly effectively and therefore didn’t have casualties nearly as bad as it could have been. Now people are unlikely to recognize how bad it can get in a worst case scenario (ala Italy).

I can’t be the only one that despises the use of the word “unlucky” when describing Florida.
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Offline Afrages6

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Re: What is FL hiding?
« Reply #45 on: July 10, 2020, 04:34:03 PM »
According to many posters on DDF what actually killed many of the patients in NY/NJ was doctors and nurses being overwhelmed so let hope that doesn’t happen in Florida as well.
Also putting everyone on a ventilator if they coughed twice contributed.

Offline S209

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Re: What is FL hiding?
« Reply #46 on: July 10, 2020, 04:43:56 PM »
Also putting everyone on a ventilator if they coughed twice contributed.
Because they didn’t want to overexert themselves To help them or because they genuinely believed that was the proper treatment? If the former, that would apply to Florida as well. If the latter, then indeed, increased medical knowledge should help with the death rate be”h.
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Offline yaakov35

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Re: What is FL hiding?
« Reply #47 on: July 10, 2020, 04:44:32 PM »


and in NYC they shut down fairly effectively and therefore didn’t have casualties nearly as bad as it could have been.

400k positives, over 32k deaths. What could have been worse?? The numbers NY has is larger then most of the world. I'm not sure how things could've been worse.

Offline YankyDoodle

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Re: What is FL hiding?
« Reply #48 on: July 10, 2020, 05:03:34 PM »

400k positives, over 32k deaths. What could have been worse?? The numbers NY has is larger then most of the world. I'm not sure how things could've been worse.

Look up Italy - 243k cases w/ 35k mortalities. That’s what happens when the healthcare system is truly overwhelmed.

Also 400k total cases is less than 5% of total population (granted the actual positive rate must have been somewhat higher as many probably did not get tested). If they hadn’t shut down to the extent they did, it certainly could have been disastrously worse.

Offline YankyDoodle

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Re: What is FL hiding?
« Reply #49 on: July 10, 2020, 05:05:38 PM »
I can’t be the only one that despises the use of the word “unlucky” when describing Florida.

If you read my OP you would see that I break it down into a lucky break or an unlucky break at this point going forward. Regardless, I don’t begrudge you for your sentiments.

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Re: What is FL hiding?
« Reply #50 on: July 10, 2020, 05:16:48 PM »

400k positives, over 32k deaths. What could have been worse?? The numbers NY has is larger then most of the world. I'm not sure how things could've been worse.

More infections and more deaths? That would have been worse. Not instituting any restrictions would have guaranteed that.
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Offline yuneeq

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Re: What is FL hiding?
« Reply #51 on: July 10, 2020, 06:57:25 PM »
If you read my OP you would see that I break it down into a lucky break or an unlucky break at this point going forward. Regardless, I don’t begrudge you for your sentiments.

I read it. Lucky and unlucky are not 2 sides of the coin. There’s also the expected result. If you know that you will roll the dice 20x, you would not say it’s unlucky to roll a 6 at least once. If rolling a 6 kills someone, that’s not bad luck or good luck. That’s what everyone expected. Luck would be Florida escaping relatively unscathed. Expected result would be that a lot of Floridians die that could’ve been saved with better policies. Unlucky would be that way more Floridians die than we could’ve expected because of an unknown variable or everything go wrong.
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Offline avromie7

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Re: What is FL hiding?
« Reply #52 on: July 12, 2020, 08:16:32 AM »
According to many posters on DDF what actually killed many of the patients in NY/NJ was doctors and nurses being overwhelmed so let hope that doesn’t happen in Florida as well.
I think wa as more the fear of overloading the system than actually overloading the system. That's something that hindsight and a few months of planning (which FL is lucky to have) can easily avoid.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

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Re: What is FL hiding?
« Reply #53 on: July 12, 2020, 08:46:54 AM »
I think wa as more the fear of overloading the system than actually overloading the system. That's something that hindsight and a few months of planning (which FL is lucky to have) can easily avoid.
Maybe you should talk to those on the frontline if you think it was only a fear of being overloaded.
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Offline Euclid

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Re: What is FL hiding?
« Reply #54 on: July 12, 2020, 08:50:58 AM »
I think wa as more the fear of overloading the system than actually overloading the system. That's something that hindsight and a few months of planning (which FL is lucky to have) can easily avoid.
That was arguably Cuomo's mistake. But take one look at the Maimonides thread to see that there were hospitals that were actually overwhelmed.

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Re: What is FL hiding?
« Reply #55 on: July 12, 2020, 09:15:50 AM »
I think wa as more the fear of overloading the system than actually overloading the system. That's something that hindsight and a few months of planning (which FL is lucky to have) can easily avoid.

It was definitely a factor, and one that FL hopefully won't have to deal with. However, looking at the hospital stats, FL may have to deal with that as an actual reality in certain parts of the state. There are a number of hospitals that have reached capacity, and have been diverting patients to other hospitals within their network for the last week already. Given the record highs of new cases and hospitalizations, care is going to become a very real concern in the next 2 weeks here. The state is trying to stay ahead of curve by sourcing 1000 new nurses, and they put in place a system back in April to help convert regular beds into Covid ICU beds. Time will tell if that's enough.
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Re: What is FL hiding?
« Reply #56 on: July 12, 2020, 09:20:44 AM »
https://www.foxnews.com/sports/rays-kevan-smith-weird-looks-wearing-mask-florida

Unfortunately, this is the reality here. Too many people are buying the narrative that Covid is being blown out of proportion by left-wing media. When Trump shows up to your "hardest hit" county without a mask, it reinforces the idea that masks aren't really necessary. Trump doesn't get that people don't use nuance to differentiate between his personal situation, where a mask probably isn't necessary, and their day-to-day lives.
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Re: What is FL hiding?
« Reply #57 on: July 12, 2020, 09:39:38 AM »
Rebekah Jones has her own dashboard with a bit more info:
https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/7572b118dc3c48d885d1c643c195314e/

As of 2 days ago, DoH started publishing hospital data, which can been seen on a new tab in the dashboard above. 307 out of 325 FL hospitals are included in those numbers (the others aren't reporting to the public).
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Re: What is FL hiding?
« Reply #58 on: July 12, 2020, 09:40:01 AM »
That was arguably Cuomo's mistake. But take one look at the Maimonides thread to see that there were hospitals that were actually overwhelmed.
In NYC it was spiraling out of control at a crazy pace, it went from a handful of hospitalizations to overflow capacity in a couple of days. I believe the fear of overwhelming/hopelessness as well as the lack of accountability were largely responsible.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

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Re: What is FL hiding?
« Reply #59 on: July 12, 2020, 09:46:24 AM »
https://amp.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article244027067.html

Can't fix stupid, but you can make laws to try to protect the rest of us from others' stupidity.
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