Correct spelling of Yiddish/Jewish names

[YitzyS]

wow a thread w 3 pages on the first day 👍! i wonder what @CountValentine thinks about all this? such a big deal about the spelling of a name??

I think it's impolite to tag @CountValentine on a thread that he will have trouble understanding.

[Chapshnell]

Is Roiza and Raizel the same name?

No!

רוזא
ריזל

[Chapshnell]

+1
If someone misspells a biblical name, then i agree, it is a real busha.
A Yiddish name, I dont agree that there are necessarily correct or incorrect spellings. As long as they keep it throughout the lifetime, i dont see the issue. Especially since  i am of the opinion that spellings could have varied according the origin location, just like Yiddish language does.

I respect your opinion but this is not about embarrassment. These are very important halachic questions that some people are just not knowledgeable in. Although most rabonim if not all are

[hockyfan]

Do you have more information about the specific location? With borders that changed throughout the years and different regions having more of a Ukrainian pronunciation and some more of a Litvish pronunciation, things can change. However, with this specific name, the two yud discussion seems irrelevant, so it's more of a question whether it would be spelled with a צ at the beginning or a טש, as well as whether there would be a yud just before the final aleph.

I brought you just one sefer, there are definitely other seforim that discuss rules as well as specifics of names, as these are very important for gittin.

If you have time and want to look around a little, you might do some searching at https://www.jewishgen.org/databases/Belarus/ (or some of their other databases)

For example, you might find:


or


and use that as a starting point.

You can also find some US gravestones such as: http://data.jewishgen.org/imagedata/jowbr/USA-02269/MSC46.jpg but I'm not sure if I'd use that as a source.

Based on what I've seen so far, I would guess that the correct spelling is ציזא, however, since you're probably not looking for the spelling to put on a critical document such as a Get, I'm not sure if further research is justified.

As far as the etymology of the name, I am totally clueless. Some seforim do have that.

I can't believe how this thread has exploded while I was out today!

Thank you again for all the responses in trying to figure out the name. We are looking into the etymology of the name for the purposes of potentially naming after her, so just having the meaning of the original name would at least be beneficial. Will try and track down a ketubah, as that is a good thought at least for spelling, but as she was not observant I'm not even sure if it's still around - but who knows! Unfortunately, as I had mentioned, she was born here in the states, and we don't have great info on where exactly her parents came from (my great grandparents).

Again, thanks for all the information and great ideas!

[Chapshnell]

Showing רוזא & ריזל  for those that asked

[Euclid]

Showing רוזא & ריזל  for those that asked

קב ונקי?

[Chapshnell]

קב ונקי?

Beis Shmuel, siman 129 even haezer forward to the end of the siman for men & women names

[moish]

not sure what you are saying, there is only one way to correctly spell a name 

And why are you the authority on how to spell the name correctly? Because your family spelled Leib with only one Yud?? I have seen big rabbis who spelled it with two.

[Chapshnell]

And why are you the authority on how to spell the name correctly? Because your family spelled Leib with only one Yud?? I have seen big rabbis who spelled it with two.

Attached. I am no authority. Both the Sanzer ruv & here you can see Leib is spelled lamed yid beis.

[Chapshnell]

And why are you the authority on how to spell the name correctly? Because your family spelled Leib with only one Yud?? I have seen big rabbis who spelled it with two.

I’ll give you 2 major recent rabonim from both chasidism & litvish that spelled it properly.

Harav Shteinman & the sfas emes of ger

Look it up

And I believe the holy rebbe r’ moshe leib sassover also is spelled correctly with one yid. Look it up!
Plus the main source for proper name spelling says to spell it with one yid

[Chapshnell]

A copy of the inside of his sefer, you cant make a decision based off of this but its just some info for this discussion of Leib

[ExGingi]

On etymology of Yiddish names (OP original inquiry that might have been lost), one might find some leads at:

https://www.behindthename.com/names/usage/yiddish
https://www.kveller.com/these-yiddish-baby-names-are-just-so-lovely/
http://www.20000-names.com/female_yiddish_names.htm

and some general info at: https://yivoencyclopedia.org/article.aspx/Names_and_Naming

[moish]

I’ll give you 2 major recent rabonim from both chasidism & litvish that spelled it properly.

Harav Shteinman & the sfas emes of ger

Look it up

And I believe the holy rebbe r’ moshe leib sassover also is spelled correctly with one yid. Look it up!
Plus the main source for proper name spelling says to spell it with one yid

And I can show those that spelled with two. It's quite probable that there  are two ways of spelling it correctly.

[Chapshnell]

And I can show those that spelled with two. It's quite probable that there  are two ways of spelling it correctly.

Show me an accepted halacha sefer on names that says Leib with two yids. Im genuinely curious if you can find one.  Not some matzeiva etc. and there is no two ways to spell a name. Unless its a different name.

[ExGingi]

And I can show those that spelled with two. It's quite probable that there  are two ways of spelling it correctly.

Except that when it comes to Gittin, I haven't seen anyone say that Leib should be spelled with two yudi"n. Do you have any source that says otherwise?

[SSLPhD]

Interesting thread.

One of my daughters is named after a grandmother that has the name spelled on her stone with an א at the end. The name is not found in Tanach to my knowledge, but is not Yiddish.  We were told that with a ה would be the Hebrew spelling, with the א, Aramaic.  Perhaps similar to Akiva?

Another question: any Halachic issues (or other issues) when names are spelled the same, but pronounced differently, like Malka and Milka (מלכה)?

[etech0]

I have heard of someone who was told by a rosh yeshiva that when giving a specific name (don't remember the name) to have in mind a specific spelling, and that in case that spelling is wrong, to have in mind that he is being mechadesh a new name.

And of course write down the spelling since down the road it will be very important to know!

[Chapshnell]

Interesting thread.

One of my daughters is named after a grandmother that has the name spelled on her stone with an א at the end. The name is not found in Tanach to my knowledge, but is not Yiddish.  We were told that with a ה would be the Hebrew spelling, with the א, Aramaic.  Perhaps similar to Akiva?

Another question: any Halachic issues (or other issues) when names are spelled the same, but pronounced differently, like Malka and Milka (מלכה)?

No, same as Mechel (mans name) & Michal (girls name)

What is your daughters name?

[Chapshnell]

No, same as Mechel (mans name) & Michal (girls name)

What is your daughters name?

By the way which the roshei teivos is:

Ki malachov yitzava loch (famous, but sharing it for those that dont know)

[moish]

Except that when it comes to Gittin, I haven't seen anyone say that Leib should be spelled with two yudi"n. Do you have any source that says otherwise?

No, as I never learned Hilchis Gittin thoroughly, so I couldn't show a source either way.

But I know that R Leib Malin and R' Chaim Stuchiner, off the top of my head, spelled with 2. That suffices for me to know that it's not as open and shut like you guys are suggesting.