Author Topic: Lakewood covid cases  (Read 37944 times)

Offline yelped

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1110 on: September 16, 2020, 08:13:54 PM »
Missing RH davening is a big time deal for some. Also yeshivas schools and shuls are being more  serious about symptomatic people attending. Heard from several people who are testing so they can resume attending.
You didn't answer the question.

Offline aygart

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1111 on: September 16, 2020, 08:15:07 PM »
Huh? I'm not sure how you understood that from what I wrote.
Missing RH davening is a big time deal for some. Also yeshivas schools and shuls are being more  serious about symptomatic people attending. Heard from several people who are testing so they can resume attending.
So is this or isn't this an uptick? Is this because there are more cases or because more just because of more people testing?
Just because things turned out a certain way doesn't mean you were right.

Offline Lurker

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1112 on: September 16, 2020, 08:16:44 PM »
Missing RH davening is a big time deal for some.

If it's such a big deal, why was I laughed at 3 weeks ago?

Do you understand that this would mean many hundreds, if not thousand, of people who won't be able to go to shul on Rosh Hashana? Every sick case, plus their families and close contacts, will have to quarantine. On top of that, all of the mid-to-high risk people will have to stay home because there are too many cases in the community for them to go to public places like shuls. So there won't be a repeat of March and there won't be a situation where the whole community has it. How many people need to have their Yomim Noraim ruined? How many people need to miss out on davening with a minyan? How many families need to spend Tishrei isolated or worrying about a hospitalized family member? Is it really too much to ask people to take some precautions for 6 weeks? Wear a mask? Keep the weddings smaller?

Enough is enough.
Please wear a mask.

Offline Euclid

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1113 on: September 16, 2020, 08:17:08 PM »
So is this or isn't this an uptick? Is this because there are more cases or because more just because of more people testing?

I think you're confusing @yelped and @Yard sale

Offline aygart

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1114 on: September 16, 2020, 08:18:49 PM »
Just because things turned out a certain way doesn't mean you were right.

Offline Yard sale

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1115 on: September 16, 2020, 08:19:04 PM »
So is this or isn't this an uptick? Is this because there are more cases or because more just because of more people testing?
Hard to claim itís not an uptick- pretty clear there is, but I think the RH dynamic is playing a role

Offline aygart

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1116 on: September 16, 2020, 08:24:03 PM »
Hard to claim itís not an uptick- pretty clear there is, but I think the RH dynamic is playing a role
It is either that the rate is higher now or that it was higher the entire time. More testing didn't create positives from thin air.
Just because things turned out a certain way doesn't mean you were right.

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1117 on: September 16, 2020, 08:34:26 PM »
Itís all schools opening. Same phenomenon in Israel, Spain, France, Canada, & others
Purpose > Pleasure

Offline Euclid

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1118 on: September 16, 2020, 08:41:34 PM »

Offline Yard sale

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1119 on: September 16, 2020, 09:13:53 PM »
It is either that the rate is higher now or that it was higher the entire time. More testing didn't create positives from thin air.
We knew that there were many symptomatic people that were choosing not to test- that was why @Euclid stopped reporting the official OCHD numbers some time ago. The question is if the large jump on official numbers reflects a similar explosion in the number of untested and unreported symptomatic people or if some of those who havenít been counted until now deciding to test.

Offline David61

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1120 on: Yesterday at 12:13:43 AM »
Debating the medical risks and potential loss of life the virus can cause does not seem to be the most effective way to persuade people to use masks and social distance.

Perhaps a more effective way to encourage that, is to highlight the risk of a DOH imposed community-wide quarantine if statistics rise substantially (like in white plains), and the impact on learning/tefila-b'tzibur/yom-tov/economic-impact/mental well being etc.

In any event, to judge the folks (taking this lightly) favorably:
(1) there is enough misinformation and changes to scientific opinion (and continued medical and statistical uncertainty, including whether the strain has gotten more mild) to confuse even well meaning folks and even a minority of experts.
(2) There is a view that society has borne enough inconvenience to protect the vulnerable, and at this point the vulnerable need to be the ones exercising extra care and let the young and healthy members of society return to normalcy so that the economy/schools/life resumes. (This includes the view that think herd immunity, is already far along, and the best way through this).
(3) The way this has become a political (republican vs. democrat) issue has those identifying with republican party, forced to choose between the views of their allies (who they trust) or the opposition (who they vigorously distrust as conspiring liars). The viciousness of partisan politics and the high-level-of-distrust undermines the arguments/evidence supporting the opposition on any individual issue.
(4) Mask discomfort, the inconveniences of SD, the emotional/psychological distress of being in quarantine earlier this year, the harsh economic impact on many, and the weakening of religious practice to those who feel passionate about that (as we all should), sway the risk/benefits toward the return-to-normalcy route.
(5) There are large swaths of people in our community who have anti-bodies have no concerns about their personal health (or spreading it to others -though I'm not sure there is 100% agreement on this).

I'm optimistic the unified and influential communications and guidance from the Moetzes will enhance unity and more consistent practice on such issues.

Offline Crazy tools

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1121 on: Yesterday at 12:26:54 AM »
This shul seems to be proactive!
Do results from such drives get reported to the OCHD?

Offline chevron

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1122 on: Yesterday at 12:40:25 AM »
Debating the medical risks and potential loss of life the virus can cause does not seem to be the most effective way to persuade people to use masks and social distance.

Perhaps a more effective way to encourage that, is to highlight the risk of a DOH imposed community-wide quarantine if statistics rise substantially (like in white plains), and the impact on learning/tefila-b'tzibur/yom-tov/economic-impact/mental well being etc.

In any event, to judge the folks (taking this lightly) favorably:
(1) there is enough misinformation and changes to scientific opinion (and continued medical and statistical uncertainty, including whether the strain has gotten more mild) to confuse even well meaning folks and even a minority of experts.
(2) There is a view that society has borne enough inconvenience to protect the vulnerable, and at this point the vulnerable need to be the ones exercising extra care and let the young and healthy members of society return to normalcy so that the economy/schools/life resumes. (This includes the view that think herd immunity, is already far along, and the best way through this).
(3) The way this has become a political (republican vs. democrat) issue has those identifying with republican party, forced to choose between the views of their allies (who they trust) or the opposition (who they vigorously distrust as conspiring liars). The viciousness of partisan politics and the high-level-of-distrust undermines the arguments/evidence supporting the opposition on any individual issue.
(4) Mask discomfort, the inconveniences of SD, the emotional/psychological distress of being in quarantine earlier this year, the harsh economic impact on many, and the weakening of religious practice to those who feel passionate about that (as we all should), sway the risk/benefits toward the return-to-normalcy route.
(5) There are large swaths of people in our community who have anti-bodies have no concerns about their personal health (or spreading it to others -though I'm not sure there is 100% agreement on this).

I'm optimistic the unified and influential communications and guidance from the Moetzes will enhance unity and more consistent practice on such issues.

That does work including the fact that somebody would have to go into quarantine if they were in contact with somebody who tested positive...

The problem is contract tracing is not going to work because people are not honest.


Offline yelped

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1123 on: Yesterday at 07:44:27 AM »
Thank you @David61. That post was just what I needed before RH to be able to dan people lkaf zchus. I will not attempt to refute any of the points in there for that reason.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 07:54:21 AM by yelped »

Offline good sam

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1124 on: Yesterday at 08:45:10 AM »
Thank you @David61. That post was just what I needed before RH to be able to dan people lkaf zchus. I will not attempt to refute any of the points in there for that reason.
I only wish I shared his optimism.
If you don't care why would you comment?
HT: DMYD