Author Topic: Lakewood covid cases  (Read 522722 times)

Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1180 on: September 18, 2020, 09:05:16 AM »
Also, if someone is infected walking around and someone gets too close by accident, it's a risk. If you have covid, stay home and hopefully someone will come to your porch to blow shofar for you.

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1181 on: September 18, 2020, 09:08:49 AM »
Why? So that they can daven with a minyan on RH!

Of course that should only be if it is done safely, but if there are ways to do it then why shouldn't they find them? It may need a lot of space, but if it is outdoor and ventilated and they also stay apart and wear masks or whatever else why should it be an issue?

I think you missed my point. Leaving aside the idea that anyone who is sick should not be wandering the streets of Lakewood, a mixed minyan including confirmed positives with anyone else should be an absolute last resort. Like I said, I'm sure there are ways to do it right, but all attempts should be made for confirmed positives to have their own minyan, away from anyone who they may get sick.
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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1182 on: September 18, 2020, 09:26:31 AM »
I think you missed my point. Leaving aside the idea that anyone who is sick should not be wandering the streets of Lakewood, a mixed minyan including confirmed positives with anyone else should be an absolute last resort. Like I said, I'm sure there are ways to do it right, but all attempts should be made for confirmed positives to have their own minyan, away from anyone who they may get sick.
THat would definitely be part of doing it right
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1183 on: September 18, 2020, 09:52:02 AM »
Masks and distance are risk mitigators, not ultimate protection. You need hospital grade PPE for that.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1184 on: September 18, 2020, 09:52:52 AM »
THat would definitely be part of doing it right
Isolated means isolated. It doesn't mean going to an outdoor minyan. If someone tests positive, the household is locked in. Full stop.

If you let people decide when and how to leave, people will unknowingly spread it. You can't leave this up to people. This is a clear case of Safek pikuach nefesh, at minimum.

Offline avromie7

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1185 on: September 18, 2020, 10:01:07 AM »
Isolated means isolated. It doesn't mean going to an outdoor minyan. If someone tests positive, the household is locked in. Full stop.

If you let people decide when and how to leave, people will unknowingly spread it. You can't leave this up to people. This is a clear case of Safek pikuach nefesh, at minimum.
OK, so scream at them that they need to stay locked up because you can't trust them, but don't say I didn't warn you when they don't listen because they really don't care if you trust them or not.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1186 on: September 18, 2020, 10:10:41 AM »
OK, so scream at them that they need to stay locked up because you can't trust them, but don't say I didn't warn you when they don't listen because they really don't care if you trust them or not.
You can say all you want that make are uncomfortable, that there's no outbreak, thst it's not a sakaneh to daven indoors. But for people who KNOW they have a potentially fatal disease and go out anyway to daven ia inexcusable.

There's been a lot of hyperbole going around about people being Rodfim, but it doesn't get more clear cut than this. Who do those people think they are fooling when they put others at risk to daven?

Offline avromie7

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1187 on: September 18, 2020, 10:13:34 AM »
You can say all you want that make are uncomfortable, that there's no outbreak, thst it's not a sakaneh to daven indoors. But for people who KNOW they have a potentially fatal disease and go out anyway to daven ia inexcusable.

There's been a lot of hyperbole going around about people being Rodfim, but it doesn't get more clear cut than this. Who do those people think they are fooling when they put others at risk to daven?
Who are they putting at risk? Everyone at the minyan is already infected.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1188 on: September 18, 2020, 10:17:56 AM »
Who are they putting at risk? Everyone at the minyan is already infected.
Anyone they may incidentally pass on their way? Unless the only people they would pass are people wearing medical grade PPE (and trained to do so properly), there's a risk. Even that's not enough as many medical professionals got it despite PPE the first time around.

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1189 on: September 18, 2020, 10:18:20 AM »
Who are they putting at risk? Everyone at the minyan is already infected.

You're assuming that a) once someone is infected, being exposed to additional virus has no effect, and b) the minyan participants will have zero contact with anyone who isn't infected already from the time they leave their house to daven until the time they come back.
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Offline avromie7

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1190 on: September 18, 2020, 10:27:22 AM »
Anyone they may incidentally pass on their way? Unless the only people they would pass are people wearing medical grade PPE (and trained to do so properly), there's a risk. Even that's not enough as many medical professionals got it despite PPE the first time around.
Quickly walking by has nothing to do with medical professionals being exposed for hours at a time including being exposed to body fluids. That's assuming they can't keep their distance while walking by.
You're assuming that a) once someone is infected, being exposed to additional virus has no effect, and b) the minyan participants will have zero contact with anyone who isn't infected already from the time they leave their house to daven until the time they come back.
There's no reason they should have any contact with anyone while walking to and from their minyan.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1191 on: September 18, 2020, 10:30:31 AM »
Quickly walking by has nothing to do with medical professionals being exposed for hours at a time including being exposed to body fluids. That's assuming they can't keep their distance while walking by. There's no reason they should have any contact with anyone while walking to and from their minyan.
You realize it only takes a split second to transmit the virus? The only difference between 'quickly walking by' and being 'exposed for hours' is the likelihood of that event occurring.

Don't forget surfaces can be contaminated
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1192 on: September 18, 2020, 10:36:28 AM »
There's no reason they should have any contact with anyone while walking to and from their minyan.

Because people have proven that they can do this. It's why there are no cases in Lakewood.
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Offline avromie7

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1193 on: September 18, 2020, 10:40:00 AM »
Because people have proven that they can do this. It's why there are no cases in Lakewood.
Don't compare people who know they're infected and isolating to people who have no reason to believe they're infected, it's intellectually dishonest.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline avromie7

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1194 on: September 18, 2020, 10:41:43 AM »
You realize it only takes a split second to transmit the virus? The only difference between 'quickly walking by' and being 'exposed for hours' is the likelihood of that event occurring.

Don't forget surfaces can be contaminated
There's a reason the CDC requires extended exposure for contact tracing, not everyone who walked by.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline good sam

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1195 on: September 18, 2020, 10:42:14 AM »


for people who KNOW they have a potentially fatal disease and go out anyway to daven ia inexcusable.
If this statement is controversial then we have lost our minds.
If you don't care why would you comment?
HT: DMYD

Offline good sam

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1196 on: September 18, 2020, 10:43:33 AM »
There's a reason the CDC requires extended exposure for contact tracing, not everyone who walked by.
I'm sure you know the difference between lechatchila and bidieved
If you don't care why would you comment?
HT: DMYD

Offline avromie7

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1197 on: September 18, 2020, 10:46:25 AM »
If this statement is controversial then we have lost our minds.
What's wrong with a COVID+ only minyan? I think it's very nice for people who tested positive to be able to daven with a minyan on Rosh Hashana.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline avromie7

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1198 on: September 18, 2020, 10:47:10 AM »
I'm sure you know the difference between lechatchila and bidieved
They should definitely do their best to not walk by anyone.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline good sam

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1199 on: September 18, 2020, 10:48:14 AM »
They should definitely do their best to not walk by anyone.
You have a lot more faith in people that I do. Lucky you.
If you don't care why would you comment?
HT: DMYD