Lakewood covid cases

[cmey]

This whole thing reads like a story straight out of Tanach: Klal Yisrael starts focusing on things that Hashem is not happy with. Hashem brings plague/famine/enemy. Klal Yisrael says we got the message; from now on things are going to be different. Hashem ends the plague/famine/war. Klal Yisrael goes right back to the way things were. Hashem brings plaque/famine/war. Repeat.

Then we had Nevi’im. Now, everyone throws in their favorite issue.

[NTorch]

Then we had Nevi’im. Now, everyone throws in their favorite issue.

Agreed - I remember going to a local BM in KGH on the night of 9/11 and there were numerous Rabbanim who were giving reasons including having newspapers in the home or the tzniyus of the women in the community. It was very disconcerting.

I don't think there is anyone who can say why this is happening, but Rabbi Frand has said that this is Hashem's way of saying that he is in control.

But while no one ican say why, isn't it time to admit we are our own worst enemy?

They shut down NY-NJ sleepaway camps, so we sent our kids to camps which were being held in other states, and now we are hearing stories of community spread due to kids bringing it back from camp.

They asked us to limit the number of attendees at weddings and while some halls played by the rules and limited the number of guests, others brought in massive tents and hosted weddings of more than 3x the limit, or claimed that the weddings were in separate rooms (or just covered their windows).

I admit I sent one of my kids to camp, although I rationalized that since my son had COVID in March, tested positive for antibodies and donated antibodies, it was safe to send him. When he came back he took a test again (which BH was negative) before leaving for Yeshiva in Israel, so I was not personally impacted, but clearly other were.

Same for weddings - my Aishes Chayil and I went to two weddings in August and while we wore masks (other than eating at a separate table) many people at the weddings, especially the friends of chosson and kallah at a large "tent wedding" in NJ did not.

While the state restrictions on the size of a simcha and the refusal to allow sleep away camps to open seemed onerous and burdensome, I have to wonder if there would not be a spread such as it is now if people had just followed the rules.

[yzj]

Then we had Nevi’im. Now, everyone throws in their favorite issue.

That’s great. Now all the great prognosticators here can opine about the causes like the dog that blames the thickness of the stick, the density of the wood, the velocity of the strike, without contemplating the owner behind the stick.

Does anybody even think about the absurd abnormality of what is taking place in the 21st century? Hundreds of shuls closed for Yom Kippur? Maybe Hashem is saying I don’t want you to just go through the motions of davening and singing the Yom Kippur Nussach from your favorite ArtScroll machzor like you did in previous years? Or have we simply adapted to this unreal reality we are living through?

Or do you think Hashem is sitting up their viewing our smug deliberations of whose fault it is and what could have prevented it and saying “wow impressive, these guys really have it all figured out?”

[shaulyaakov]

That’s if you assume that a vaccine is around the corner. Many would say that everyone will be exposed eventually one way or the other. Wait until late 2021 before you take a victory lap and call it preventable and a miscalculation. Look at the premature victory everyone here declared in the Sweden vs Denmark thread. (BTW Chicago took things seriously. The shuls were empty Shavuos night.  They have a bunch of cases. Far Rockaway took things seriously. They are inundated with cases. Passaic has multiple cases.)

Besides, what is taking place in Denmark and across Europe tells you that even widely adopted efforts at long term precautions are simply not sustainable. Fatigue sets in, and the resulting resurgence is bound to happen.

It's not a victory lap, and mitigation isn't the same as eradication.

It's clear that while the rest of NY/NJ has it under control right now , it's materially worse in the Orthodox community almost exclusively. It's clear that there's a correlation between places that take precautions seriously and places that don't. South Dakota was fine, they had a giant motercycle convention, and then they had a spike.

Israel reopened everything and now it's the worst place in the world. What were likely seeing in Europe is that people are getting too complacent. That's not a contradiction.

As far as exposure - we know at this point that exposure means nothing. We know that if you keep people distant, wearing masks, and minimizing prolonged contact, the virus doesn't transmit as quickly. I think it's a false argument to say that we'll all contract COVID.

To be honest, I'm not sure that I would say that we need to shut down, but certainly, taking precautions to allow us to maintain a safer status quo, seems to be the best option.

[yuneeq]

That’s great. Now all the great prognosticators here can opine about the causes like the dog that blames the thickness of the stick, the density of the wood, the velocity of the strike, without contemplating the owner behind the stick.

God gave us free will. Gave us the choice to kill, the choice to be kind to others, and the choice to expose a deadly virus to others. Sure nothing happens without God willing it, but we can’t ignore that we have become the vehicle of destruction.

[S209]

FTFY


This has played out almost exactly like what I and other had said that it would take months to spread back to a scale similar to what it was in March. It probably took a little longer to come back until the chasunas were back in swing and then 2-3 months and boom. The entire timeline is so clear and obvious.

It does seem like you were on target about how long it took. Odds are it was circulating silently in the community in February as well before exploding on Purim.

While many of us "panic spreaders" don't see eye to eye with @avromie7, he's been amongst the more intellectually honest and civilized people on this board, and I don't think we should be picking on him.

Without saying names, there's a whole host of other people here who you can pick on. Though surely it won't be as satisfying, being that their mind pretzels are quite robust.

Hey, I like him too! But this is a grudge match

[Lurker]

That’s great. Now all the great prognosticators here can opine about the causes like the dog that blames the thickness of the stick, the density of the wood, the velocity of the strike, without contemplating the owner behind the stick.

Does anybody even think about the absurd abnormality of what is taking place in the 21st century? Hundreds of shuls closed for Yom Kippur? Maybe Hashem is saying I don’t want you to just go through the motions of davening and singing the Yom Kippur Nussach from your favorite ArtScroll machzor like you did in previous years? Or have we simply adapted to this unreal reality we are living through?

Or do you think Hashem is sitting up their viewing our smug deliberations of whose fault it is and what could have prevented it and saying “wow impressive, these guys really have it all figured out?”

Do you really think Hashem is sitting up there saying, "those sinning bastards deserve all this pain?" Or do you think maybe He's shaking his head, wondering why His leaders didn't manage to convince anyone to do their hishtadlus?

[NTorch]

Do you really think Hashem is sitting up there saying, "those sinning bastards deserve all this pain?" Or do you think maybe He's shaking his head, wondering why His leaders didn't manage to convince anyone to do their hishtadlus?

What occurred to me on RH is that this corona virus is called that because the protrusion from the virus look like crowns and that on the day that we are being Mamlich Hashem by saying Malchus (and again to quote R' Frand from a pre-RH derashsa a few weeks back) we are saying we submit to You Hashem that Your Ratzon is our Ratzon and that You are in control.

[S209]

By the way, I’m negative for antibodies

[shaulyaakov]

This reminds me of the following joke:

A guy is circling around the block a few minutes before shabbos desperately trying to find a parking spot. He starts davening to find a spot. Nothing. He starts crying out to Hashem promising to be a better person and to give more tzedakah. Right as he's about to finish his plea, the car right in front of him pulls out. So he says, "never mind! I found a spot!"

We have doctors telling us what to do to save lives. But rather than heeding their warnings, we're doing whatever we want, and then say, "there's no way to stop the gezeria. There simply nothing we can do."

Hashem is sending a plague, for reasons none of us can begin to comprehend. He also sent us doctors and scientists to tell us how we can mitigate it. It would behoove us to listen to both messages.

[NTorch]

By the way, I’m negative for antibodies

How long ago did you have it? I had it in late March (BH finished my two weeks at home a week before Pesach) and tested negative for antibodies  (mayo) less than 30 days after onset of symptoms, but positive and high enough to donate (Mt Sinai) about two weeks after testing negative.

[monoso]

If this follows the same pattern as last time it will hit the general population a little after the Jewish population. Good luck on keeping the schools open.
 Also it does not seem as if there was much benefit to staying closed the past few months, everyone is getting hit now not just Lakewood and Brooklyn.

[yzj]

Do you really think Hashem is sitting up there saying, "those sinning bastards deserve all this pain?" Or do you think maybe He's shaking his head, wondering why His leaders didn't manage to convince anyone to do their hishtadlus?

I’ll flip the question. Do you think Hashem sent a pandemic the likes the modern world has never seen simply to see if we exercise our free will to mask??

[shaulyaakov]

I’ll flip the question. Do you think Hashem sent a pandemic the likes the modern world has never seen simply to see if we exercise our free will to mask??

Should nobody get Chemo because Hashem created cancer? Think about what you are implying.

[avromie7]

At this point, it's clear that in NY and NJ, COVID is once again disproportionately affecting orthodox communities.

How much of this is "bad luck" vs. self inflicted from being somewhere between ambivalent to masking/distancing and being outright against it?

If you beleive that some of it is self inflicted, then the logical conclusion from that is that it was preventable. Which essentially reinforces the points that many here were making that not taking it seriously was a potentially tragic miscalculation.

Na, it's the virus being anti semitic

There are many other neighborhoods in NYC with similar outbreaks, it's very telling when the mayor singles out all the jewish neighborhoods and ignores all the others. It's not the first time he picked on us during this pandemic.

[Lurker]

I’ll flip the question. Do you think Hashem sent a pandemic the likes the modern world has never seen simply to see if we exercise our free will to mask??

First of all, these pandemics come every hundred years or so. Second, it's not a stira. Let the reason for the mageifa be to wake up the world that there is a King of kings. That doesn't excuse the lack of any reaction after the first wave to prevent or minimize a second wave. Hashem works b'derech hatevah, and we are expected to react accordingly. He made masks, too.

[Euclid]

There are many other neighborhoods in NYC with similar outbreaks, it's very telling when the mayor singles out all the jewish neighborhoods and ignores all the others. It's not the first time he picked on us during this pandemic.

Similar outbreaks? Source?

[shaulyaakov]

There are many other neighborhoods in NYC with similar outbreaks, it's very telling when the mayor singles out all the jewish neighborhoods and ignores all the others. It's not the first time he picked on us during this pandemic.

Which ones?

[yuneeq]

By the way, I’m negative for antibodies

Is there a place/time I can get tested for antibodies without being heavily exposed?

[Euclid]

Is there a place/time I can get tested for antibodies without being heavily exposed?

Go to any general practitioner for blood work (eg a physical) and ask them to test for antibodies too.