Lakewood covid cases

[dasmo801]

It's incredible how many people reached out to me to thank me for merely putting out some "inconvenient" facts to give a little balance to the picture.
What's even more incredible is how many people mentioned how they feel bullied on this forum if they don't toe the politically correct line. That was certainly an eye-opener.

Not sure how people feel bullied on a mostly anonymous forum. Am I supposed to care what some other anonymous person thinks about my opinion? And more to the point, there is overall very little name calling or anything else that can be described as bullying going on here. Most of what I see here is vigorous debate of heartfelt opinions.

[PlatinumGuy]

It's incredible how many people reached out to me to thank me for merely putting out some "inconvenient" facts to give a little balance to the picture.
What's even more incredible is how many people mentioned how they feel bullied on this forum if they don't toe the politically correct line. That was certainly an eye-opener.

People propagating deadly lies should be bullied. We should be proud.

[iluv2travel]

Feelings don't care about your facts.

That's not exactly fair.

Nobody should be feeling bullied regardless of their positions or what they post. And unfortunately, I have definitely seen it here both ways coming from both sides.

This is not Trump Fans vs BLM Fans (or whatever far right vs left groups you choose) where there is a complete and total lack of any modicum of respect. People here should be able to respectfully express their views without being afraid that they are going to be attacked for those views. There's a way to phrase things in a non-aggressive or offensive manner even if you vehemently disagree with someone.

I'm not speaking specifically to you because I quoted your post. I'm speaking to the general oilim here .

[iluv2travel]

People propagating deadly lies should be bullied. We should be proud.

No, bullying is wrong. 2 wrongs don't make a right.

You'll be better off refuting the deadly lies with data and facts on the ground than bullying.

[PlatinumGuy]

People here should be able to respectfully express their views without being afraid that they are going to be attacked for those views. There's a way to phrase things in a non-aggressive or offensive manner even if you vehemently disagree with someone.

The post below isn't a view. It's a lie. There aren't two sides to it. It's not an excuse to attack anybody personally, which I don't condone, but the lies should not be respected or tolerated. If people feel uncomfortable posting lies here, we're doing something right.

Most of Lakewood has immunity.
It's an indisputable fact.

[iluv2travel]

The post below isn't a view. It's a lie. There aren't two sides to it. It's not an excuse to attack anybody personally, which I don't condone, but the lies should not be respected or tolerated. If people feel uncomfortable posting lies here, we're doing something right.

Lying is wrong. So is bullying. I believe we agree on that.

Instead of bullying the guy who posts the lie, just bring a fact refuting said lie to unequivocally prove it wrong. Simple as that. They won't lie again so fast if they see how the lies are exposed so fast.

[PlatinumGuy]

Lying is wrong. So is bullying. I believe we agree on that.

Instead of bullying the guy who posts the lie, just bring a fact refuting said lie to unequivocally prove it wrong. Simple as that. They won't lie again so fast if they see how the lies are exposed so fast.

One doesn't need to provide any facts to argue that saying something is an indisputable fact without evidence is a lie.

[S209]

Yes there absolutely are tradeoffs that need to be made, but there are some items which there is not real tradeoff of significance. One of those is large weddings. So much of the spread and the accompanying tragedies can be attributed to large weddings.

+ 1 Billion

[iluv2travel]

One doesn't need to provide any facts to argue that saying something is an indisputable fact without evidence is a lie.

Granted. Everyone should be held responsible for backing up their statements.

I still wouldn't be proud of bullying even if someone outright lies.

[AsherO]

It's incredible how many people reached out to me to thank me for merely putting out some "inconvenient" facts to give a little balance to the picture.
What's even more incredible is how many people mentioned how they feel bullied on this forum if they don't toe the politically correct line. That was certainly an eye-opener.

Polls on DDF are anonymous. Start a poll in a new topic and PM all these imaginary people asking them to vote.

[S209]

Lying is wrong. So is bullying. I believe we agree on that.

Instead of bullying the guy who posts the lie, just bring a fact refuting said lie to unequivocally prove it wrong. Simple as that. They won't lie again so fast if they see how the lies are exposed so fast.

If someone posits something with no evidence the onus is on them to prove that it is so.

I might add, this same statement has been recycled so many times in many waves over many seasons, each time ground to dust as facts became impossible to ignore.

[iluv2travel]

+ 1 Billion

Feels like the number of times its been discussed on the COVID merry-go-round.

[AsherO]

Yes there absolutely are tradeoffs that need to be made, but there are some items which there is not real tradeoff of significance. One of those is large weddings. So much of the spread and the accompanying tragedies can be attributed to large weddings.

Yes and no. Weddings are a big source of the spread. But at the same time people who don’t attend weddings shouldn’t get a false sense of security or feel no responsibility to mitigate COVID just because they don’t attend weddings.

Granted, people who don’t attend weddings because of COVID are likely to be careful elsewhere as well.

[iluv2travel]

If someone posits something with no evidence the onus is on them to prove that it is so.

Did you read my next post?

Granted. Everyone should be held responsible for backing up their statements.

I might add, this same statement has been recycled so many times in many waves over many seasons, each time ground to dust as facts became impossible to ignore.

Which statement?

[YitzyS]

Rav Yisroel Reisman said:

What happened is that the US has changed to a country in which people who have different opinions are totally dismissive of the people they disagree with. It is normal. I feel one way you feel the other way and I think that you are wrong and I am right. But it has come to a point where the people who disagree are criminals. The people who disagree are hoodlums. That is just the way the country has turned. Let this not happen to Frum Yidden. There are differences of opinion amongst the Frum Yidden. Differences of opinion on how to deal with the pandemic, how to deal with the masks, how to deal with the social distancing, how to deal with the vaccines. Hashem Yishmor, the most dangerous thing about this pandemic is that we see Jews talking about Jews who disagree with them as if they are criminals, as if they are hoodlums, as if they are fools, as if they are nuts. People are being totally dismissive of everyone else’s opinion.
I see Machloksim about Pikuach Nefashos in the Poskim and they talk respectfully. One says this is called Pikuach Nefashos one says this is not called Pikuach Nefashos. I see Machloksim and Gedolei Olam they talk respectfully one to the other. But today’s world everybody is dismissive. What happens in the Goyishe world creeps into our world.
If you have an opinion you are entitled to it. Stick to your opinion. Follow your medical advice. Follow whatever you say. But don’t talk about the others as crooks, as criminals, as fools, as what is going on here. Hashem Yishmor. Lashon Hora is Mazik everybody, the one who says, the one who listens, the one you talk about. We need so much Shemira.
Let’s take it upon ourselves B’ezras Hashem to be careful about the way we talk about people who disagree with us and people who agree with us. Let’s talk about Yidden with great care. Obviously there are differences of opinion. Responsible people on every side of the debate can have different opinions. You know something, we can live in a world where different people can have a different opinion. Hashem Yishmor Tzais’cha Uvo’echa Mai’ata V’ad Olam. We should have Shemira from physical Mazikim and even more from Aveiros. A Gutten Shabbos to one and all!         

[S209]

Polls on DDF are anonymous. Start a poll in a new topic and PM all these imaginary people asking them to vote.

You wouldn’t believe how many people have PMd me thanking me for my post about LH miles, and how they feel bullied when they try to discuss Star Alliance deals.

I’m glad they’re turning to me as their self appointed spokesperson. Just putting out these inconvenient facts, politically correct line-toeing or not! Shame on everyone for marginalizing these voices. I won’t let truth, facts, or logic get in the way of my straw-manning!

(The vast majority of posters on the DDF COVID board are in the “Corona-denier” category, and I have been called “contrarian” and “just looking to fight” many times when calling out their false and mostly incoherent arguments. You might want to choose another position to defend if you’re looking to feel heroic and defiant).

[AsherO]

You wouldn’t believe how many people have PMd me thanking me for my post about LH miles, and how they feel bullied when they try to discuss Star Alliance deals.

I’m glad they’re turning to me as their self appointed spokesperson. Just putting out these inconvenient facts, politically correct line-toeing or not! Shame on everyone for marginalizing these voices. I won’t let truth, facts, or logic get in the way of my straw-manning!

(The vast majority of posters on the DDF COVID board are in the “Corona-denier” category, and I have been called “contrarian” and “just looking to fight” many times when calling out their false and mostly incoherent arguments. You might want to choose another position to defend if you’re looking to feel heroic and defiant).

You’re replying to me? I was talking to @ae123 whom I quoted in the post you quoted.

[PlatinumGuy]

Polls on DDF are anonymous. Start a poll in a new topic and PM all these imaginary people asking them to vote.

Excellent point.

[iluv2travel]

Yes and no. Weddings are a big source of the spread. But at the same time people who don’t attend weddings shouldn’t get a false sense of security or feel no responsibility to mitigate COVID just because they don’t attend weddings.

Granted, people who don’t attend weddings because of COVID are likely to be careful elsewhere as well.

And don't we all know people who unfortunately got sick even though they were super careful? At least I do. We all need to put in our greatest effort to stop this monster but ultimately realize that its not in our control.

You’re replying to me? I was talking to @ae123 whom I quoted in the post you quoted.

Yeah, seems like there's a mixup here.

[iluv2travel]

Rav Yisroel Reisman said:

Well said. However  I'm afraid many will skip over this saying TLDR, which is a shame.