Lakewood covid cases

[ShimshonK]

Any opinions on if I'm clear? Anyone know what doctors say? Someone told me "there's no black and white".

[yzj]

[aygart]

Any opinions on if I'm clear? Anyone know what doctors say? Someone told me "there's no black and white".

Do you have a personal Dr.?

[yelped]

This is unfortunately true no matter how much some may want to bury their heads in the sand. COVID is running rampant. Within the last 3 days I heard of a whole bunch of positives including one who both had it and was vaccinated.

Yup, if at least 15 people on my block just had it, when most (none of these 15, though) had it already, then it must be very rampant in Lakewood right now.

[ShimshonK]

Do you have a personal Dr.?

Not really. PA relative told me no black and white answer.

[ShimshonK]

Was told by a (I believe big covid source) doctor that I'm probably fine, the second PCR will be a better confirmation.

[biobook]

In any case, want to hear from DDF -
Vaxxed, had minor cough, yesterday went to Chai and tested positive on rapid, isolated, received back negative PCR result this morning. Went to Chemed today and tested negative on rapid, awaiting PCR (after shabbos).

Chai told me (upon receiving positive rapid) that negative PCR won't clear me since they went further up nose for the rapid.
Chemed person behind the counter told me I'm good to go even without another test.
The nurse who gave the test seemed to think similar and said that I'm good if the rapid comes back negative (which it did).
I think official health policy is 2 negative PCR's, 24 hours apart.

@ShimshonK I'm trying to read various recommendations, and it's confusing.  This is my best guess, but look at the sources below.

Vaxxed, 7 months ago.
Symptoms - only a cough.  (no headache, congestion, fatigue, nausea, fever)
You don't have personal physician

I assume:
Symptoms began within 3 days prior (Tues, Wed or Thurs)
You're in your 20s or 30s (because if you were older you'd probably have a personal physician)

After a positive on rapid test, should isolate until get results from PCR.  PCR used to confirm rapid test results should use "specimens with evidence of the most sensitivity, such as nasopharyngeal or mid-turbinate swabs," that is, from all the way up the nose. 

It sounds like Chai is saying that they didn't do that, that is, that they took the PCR specimen from lower down.  Does that sound like what you felt?  Did Chemed take the PCR test from all the way up?  If you think that the Chai PCR may not have been taken properly, but that the Chemed test was, then it makes sense to continue to isolate over Shabbos, till you get the results of the second, more accurate, PCR.  And if that's also negative, then one would assume that the first rapid result was a false positive, so you can rejoin society.

I don't see anything recent about 2 tests separated by 24 hours, and I'm wondering whether that might have been the policy last year, when the initial tests were less accurate. 

But this is where it's confusing:  All this is predicated on the assumption that you did not have close contact with someone who is known to have a covid-19 infection.  If you did have such a contact (or if you find out retroactively that someone you were near has since become ill) then the recommendation is to count 5 days after that contact before getting a test.  That is, it can take 5 days for the PCR to turn positive, so if, for example, you were near an infected person on Tues, it's possible that you were infected but the PCR would be negative on Thurs, Fri, and only turn positive on Sunday.  So if you have reason to think that you had close contact over yuntif with someone with covid, then perhaps you should continue to isolate and have an additional PCR on Sun/Mon. 

This is the source I used
https://www.vdh.virginia.gov/coronavirus/antigen-testing-recommendations/#evaluate-ag-test-results
including footnotes

Also check out these:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/lab/resources/antigen-tests-guidelines.html

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/testing/diagnostic-testing.html
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/symptoms-testing/testing.html
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/duration-isolation.html

[ShimshonK]

@ShimshonK I'm trying to read various recommendations, and it's confusing.  This is my best guess, but look at the sources below.

Vaxxed, 7 months ago.
Symptoms - only a cough.  (no headache, congestion, fatigue, nausea, fever)
You don't have personal physician

I assume:
Symptoms began within 3 days prior (Tues, Wed or Thurs)
You're in your 20s or 30s (because if you were older you'd probably have a personal physician)

After a positive on rapid test, should isolate until get results from PCR.  PCR used to confirm rapid test results should use "specimens with evidence of the most sensitivity, such as nasopharyngeal or mid-turbinate swabs," that is, from all the way up the nose. 

It sounds like Chai is saying that they didn't do that, that is, that they took the PCR specimen from lower down.  Does that sound like what you felt?  Did Chemed take the PCR test from all the way up?  If you think that the Chai PCR may not have been taken properly, but that the Chemed test was, then it makes sense to continue to isolate over Shabbos, till you get the results of the second, more accurate, PCR.  And if that's also negative, then one would assume that the first rapid result was a false positive, so you can rejoin society.

I don't see anything recent about 2 tests separated by 24 hours, and I'm wondering whether that might have been the policy last year, when the initial tests were less accurate. 

But this is where it's confusing:  All this is predicated on the assumption that you did not have close contact with someone who is known to have a covid-19 infection.  If you did have such a contact (or if you find out retroactively that someone you were near has since become ill) then the recommendation is to count 5 days after that contact before getting a test.  That is, it can take 5 days for the PCR to turn positive, so if, for example, you were near an infected person on Tues, it's possible that you were infected but the PCR would be negative on Thurs, Fri, and only turn positive on Sunday.  So if you have reason to think that you had close contact over yuntif with someone with covid, then perhaps you should continue to isolate and have an additional PCR on Sun/Mon. 

This is the source I used
https://www.vdh.virginia.gov/coronavirus/antigen-testing-recommendations/#evaluate-ag-test-results
including footnotes

Also check out these:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/lab/resources/antigen-tests-guidelines.html

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/testing/diagnostic-testing.html
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/symptoms-testing/testing.html
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/duration-isolation.html

Thank you. Your assumptions are all correct.
Both Chemed tests and the Chai PCR were not very far up, like the Chai rapid was.
No known contact.

[biobook]

Thank you. Your assumptions are all correct.
Both Chemed tests and the Chai PCR were not very far up, like the Chai rapid was.
No known contact.

So perhaps it's not the absolutely best PCR, but two of the second-best PCRs should be fine, and if they both agree that you're negative, then my understanding is that this is an acceptable result to exit isolation, and the assumption is that the first rapid was a false positive. 

Still, since there's a chance that you were near someone positive over yuntif, it would be a good idea to be especially scrupulous for the next 10 days about the usual precautions -- wear a mask, practice physical distancing, avoid crowds and poorly ventilated areas, and wash your hands often.

[ShimshonK]

So perhaps it's not the absolutely best PCR, but two of the second-best PCRs should be fine, and if they both agree that you're negative, then my understanding is that this is an acceptable result to exit isolation, and the assumption is that the first rapid was a false positive. 

Still, since there's a chance that you were near someone positive over yuntif, it would be a good idea to be especially scrupulous for the next 10 days about the usual precautions -- wear a mask, practice physical distancing, avoid crowds and poorly ventilated areas, and wash your hands often.

Agreed, but question is if I'm already good now. I'd still stay away from people over shabbos and be careful until next PCR result, but total isolation would be a lot more drastic.

[biobook]

Agreed, but question is if I'm already good now. I'd still stay away from people over shabbos and be careful until next PCR result, but total isolation would be a lot more drastic.

You're asking a scientific question - "Am I carrying the covid virus?" - and I think the scientific answer is a definite "We can't be sure."  One rapid test says Yes, one (possibly not optimal) PCR says No.

So you really need to ask a different question - Given the uncertainty, how should I behave?

On the one hand, PCR is more accurate, perhaps even if suboptimally taken, so you might lean towards accepting the negative result, as Chemed and the doctor suggested.  On the other hand, posts above mention increased cases in Lakewood this week, so with lots of virus in the air, anyone singing and dancing on ST had a higher than usual chance of catching something, so you might lean towards being more cautious till you get the second PCR result.

Other things to consider:  If you're not in total isolation, where would you be?  Who would you be near?  What is their vulnerability?  Can you increase ventilation (open windows) if you need to be near others?  Can you minimize your time near them? 

[Joel]

Course complete.

You didn't even enter Brooklyn meh

[ShimshonK]

You're asking a scientific question - "Am I carrying the covid virus?" - and I think the scientific answer is a definite "We can't be sure."  One rapid test says Yes, one (possibly not optimal) PCR says No.

So you really need to ask a different question - Given the uncertainty, how should I behave?

On the one hand, PCR is more accurate, perhaps even if suboptimally taken, so you might lean towards accepting the negative result, as Chemed and the doctor suggested.  On the other hand, posts above mention increased cases in Lakewood this week, so with lots of virus in the air, anyone singing and dancing on ST had a higher than usual chance of catching something, so you might lean towards being more cautious till you get the second PCR result.

Other things to consider:  If you're not in total isolation, where would you be?  Who would you be near?  What is their vulnerability?  Can you increase ventilation (open windows) if you need to be near others?  Can you minimize your time near them?

Very well said.
I'll update on my status m"s/Sun.

[YitzyS]

I just called my health insurance company and told them that I want to switch my PCP to biobook. They couldn't find her in the system though... 

[ShimshonK]

Very well said.
I'll update on my status m"s/Sun.

PCR came back inconclusive.
Chemed had a doctor out that I talked to. She presumes I had Covid with all the factors involved. Had me test again and had them get a better swab. If it comes out negative again, she believes there's room to be lenient as she thinks at the very least I wouldn't be contagious.

[Baruch]

This is unfortunately true no matter how much some may want to bury their heads in the sand. COVID is running rampant. Within the last 3 days I heard of a whole bunch of positives including one who both had it and was vaccinated.

Two sisters, 1 brother in law, 1 sister in law, 2 nieces. Can’t keep count of cousins… It’s back.

[rs242]

Two sisters, 1 brother in law, 1 sister in law, 2 nieces. Can’t keep count of cousins… It’s back.

It’s definitely running… but not hearing much of reinfection

[Dan]

Two sisters, 1 brother in law, 1 sister in law, 2 nieces. Can’t keep count of cousins… It’s back.

Vaccinated and/or recovered?

[Euclid]

My sister in law (March 2020) and another couple in my shul (October 2020) are reinfections I've heard about in recent days.

[aygart]

It’s definitely running… but not hearing much of reinfection

Then you are not listening. There are TONS!! Some mentioned right here n this thread.

This is unfortunately true no matter how much some may want to bury their heads in the sand. COVID is running rampant. Within the last 3 days I heard of a whole bunch of positives including one who both had it and was vaccinated.

My shul has a couple who just caught it for the second time.