Author Topic: Lakewood covid cases  (Read 522758 times)

Online avromie7

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #880 on: September 10, 2020, 04:49:20 PM »
I didn’t stand behind anything, I didn’t participate in that discussion.

The inaccuracy @yaakov35 posted is part of a long trend of misinformation which causes confusion and obfuscates. This also contributes to people neglecting to absorb and adhere to information that is factual because they are led to believe that nothing is true or established, when that is false.

The post @Baruch made contained all the information upon which he based his claim, and anyone with eyes and a brain could see that that’s hardly sufficient evidence to reach a conclusion, and in any case, any conclusion that could possibly be reached was harmless and perhaps helpful.
100% agree. The studies are around for a long time, and ii still hasn't convinced many people. I figured anecdotal evidence that people can relate to may convince.
I find this to be a huge issue among "mask pushers", they assume that by overstating the effectiveness and/or the need for masks it will convince more people to wear masks. In reality everyone sees right through the deception and it just undermines your arguement. There are many examples here on the forums as well as other places a few examples are
  • People who wear masks while driving down the highway
  • People who wear masks while walking down wide empty roads
  • I believe it was in WA, there was a state agency who put out a memo requiring their employees to wear masks on zoom conferences with people from outside the agency.

All it does is make people look and say these people are crazy.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Online S209

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #881 on: September 10, 2020, 04:54:30 PM »
I find this to be a huge issue among "mask pushers", they assume that by overstating the effectiveness and/or the need for masks it will convince more people to wear masks. In reality everyone sees right through the deception and it just undermines your arguement. There are many examples here on the forums as well as other places a few examples are
  • People who wear masks while driving down the highway
  • People who wear masks while walking down wide empty roads
  • I believe it was in WA, there was a state agency who put out a memo requiring their employees to wear masks on zoom conferences with people from outside the agency.

All it does is make people look and say these people are crazy.
After 6 months to find one you have yet to quote a single study or doctor disagreeing, yet still pretend there are two sides. The silence is deafening.

I’ll say it again, and it’s easy to show that I’m wrong- it’s very easy to disprove an argument claiming an absolute negative with even very slight evidence:

There is NOBODY in the medical world who disagrees. Nobody.

It’s idiotic to claim that because a few people wear masks in situations you disagree with, everybody who believes in mask wearing (around 7 billion people, give or take) is crazy.

I hope you don’t claim that actions of a few in every group speak for the whole.. or else all cops must be racist murderers.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2020, 04:59:13 PM by S209 »
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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #882 on: September 10, 2020, 04:58:08 PM »
Well ya I don't think it needs 15 minutes exactly, but if there's no significant exposure your making a very hard case that people would get infected even if people with covid were there.
It is definitely less likely the less the exposure is, but that does not mean that "in order for it to spread it needs 15 minutes" but that it is lower on the scale of likelihood. This distinction is a very important one.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #883 on: September 10, 2020, 05:02:03 PM »
I'll sometimes keep my mask on for a short drive between 2 stores just so I don't have to take it off/put it back.

Offline cmey

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #884 on: September 10, 2020, 05:29:15 PM »
Spoke to a doctor who has a large percent of geriatric patients. He says that many many of his patients tell him they just want to die. They have nothing to live for since covid and they don’t believe there will be a solution in their lifetime. So sad and tragic.

Online avromie7

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #885 on: September 10, 2020, 05:51:18 PM »
After 6 months to find one you have yet to quote a single study or doctor disagreeing, yet still pretend there are two sides. The silence is deafening.

I’ll say it again, and it’s easy to show that I’m wrong- it’s very easy to disprove an argument claiming an absolute negative with even very slight evidence:

There is NOBODY in the medical world who disagrees. Nobody.

It’s idiotic to claim that because a few people wear masks in situations you disagree with, everybody who believes in mask wearing (around 7 billion people, give or take) is crazy.

I hope you don’t claim that actions of a few in every group speak for the whole.. or else all cops must be racist murderers.
You can scream on top of your lungs and you can be 100% correct, it doesn't change the way people look at it. It's not just a few people, it's the most vocal people and the people who should be leading the way with sanity not the insanity of wearing a mask when you pose no risk to others.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline Lurker

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #886 on: September 10, 2020, 06:01:15 PM »
You can scream on top of your lungs and you can be 100% correct, it doesn't change the way people look at it. It's not just a few people, it's the most vocal people and the people who should be leading the way with sanity not the insanity of wearing a mask when you pose no risk to others.

What's your point? You're not disagreeing that it is the correct thing to do. You keep on pointing to other people going to absolutes or extremes as excuses for why people are being stupid and ignoring the facts. "I'm emotionally triggered by their stupidity, so I'm going to act like an idiot and put myself and the people around me in danger to counteract their stupidity. That'll show them!" I don't think you're an idiot, and I know you don't think you're an idiot, so why do you insist on parroting the stupidity of idiots?
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Offline cmey

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #887 on: September 10, 2020, 07:11:08 PM »



Basically wear masks even if you don’t need to because that is the only way those who need to will

Online S209

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #888 on: September 10, 2020, 07:40:40 PM »
What's your point? You're not disagreeing that it is the correct thing to do. You keep on pointing to other people going to absolutes or extremes as excuses for why people are being stupid and ignoring the facts. "I'm emotionally triggered by their stupidity, so I'm going to act like an idiot and put myself and the people around me in danger to counteract their stupidity. That'll show them!" I don't think you're an idiot, and I know you don't think you're an idiot, so why do you insist on parroting the stupidity of idiots?
Unfortunately, after many conversations with people on the ground, he is 100% right. The vast majority of people in Lakewood think there’s no proof either way, and prefer to not wear a mask with the logic that who says they work anyway, sfek sfek sfaika.
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Offline Lurker

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #889 on: September 10, 2020, 08:19:41 PM »
Unfortunately, after many conversations with people on the ground, he is 100% right. The vast majority of people in Lakewood think there’s no proof either way, and prefer to not wear a mask with the logic that who says they work anyway, sfek sfek sfaika.

I know he's right that the majority of the people in many frum communities of NY/NJ have arbitrarily decided to ignore the science. The point is, we, here on these forums, have had this argument extensively, and no one has yet to bring any scientific proof to substantiate those beliefs. So why continue to be intellectually dishonest by parroting them and excuse them over and over?
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Offline KSMH

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #890 on: September 10, 2020, 09:17:33 PM »
I know he's right that the majority of the people in many frum communities of NY/NJ have arbitrarily decided to ignore the science. The point is, we, here on these forums, have had this argument extensively, and no one has yet to bring any scientific proof to substantiate those beliefs. So why continue to be intellectually dishonest by parroting them and excuse them over and over?
What science?

There is "science" for both sides of arguments, individual people decide on their own, which side of science to listen to.

Its like listening to Governor's lecturing its people to listen to the "science" while either flouting their own rules or putting policy in place based on political considerations.

Not seeing scientist loudly advocating one way or another means nothing in times of C culture, look enough and their all there.
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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #891 on: September 10, 2020, 09:22:46 PM »
What science?

There is "science" for both sides of arguments, individual people decide on their own, which side of science to listen to.

Its like listening to Governor's lecturing its people to listen to the "science" while either flouting their own rules or putting policy in place based on political considerations.

Not seeing scientist loudly advocating one way or another means nothing in times of C culture, look enough and their all there.

On cue, bring in a politician.

This is not a machlokes rishonim. There is no debate amongst the experts. Show me the science, any science, that justifies not wearing a mask. Show me the science that justifies the weddings that are going on right now. I've looked, I can't find it. And it's not because they are afraid of cancel culture.
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Online S209

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #892 on: September 10, 2020, 10:05:25 PM »
There is "science" for both sides of arguments, individual people decide on their own, which side of science to listen to.
Please post one scientific or medical source that claims masks are completely ineffective in reducing the spread of COVID-19 from an infected individual.
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Offline chevron

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #893 on: September 10, 2020, 10:22:20 PM »
Please post one scientific or medical source that claims masks are completely ineffective in reducing the spread of COVID-19 from an infected individual.

I don't understand how that's relevant.

Please post one substantiated scientific study that shows that masks actually increase the virus.

people were asked to do a small part to prevent the virus spread so that people don't die like flies.

No, I can't be arsed!! Don't bother me!!


Offline KSMH

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #894 on: September 10, 2020, 10:26:06 PM »
On cue, bring in a politician.

This is not a machlokes rishonim. There is no debate amongst the experts. Show me the science, any science, that justifies not wearing a mask. Show me the science that justifies the weddings that are going on right now. I've looked, I can't find it. And it's not because they are afraid of cancel culture.

I'm not justifying what people are doing or not doing, we live in a free country. If you don't like something avoid it!
I am saying; "science" has itself on both sides.

Without misrepresenting what I said, ill repeat, scientists and DR's (and Rabbis's) are generally afraid to against the "mainstream narrative" FACT.

Please post one scientific or medical source that claims masks are completely ineffective in reducing the spread of COVID-19 from an infected individual.

GIYF
I didn't do much search but a quick search brings up unlimited results.
https://www.rcreader.com/commentary/masks-dont-work-covid-a-review-of-science-relevant-to-covide-19-social-policy
https://www.health.govt.nz/system/files/documents/pages/evidence-review-for-the-use-of-facemasks-by-the-public-may6-2020.pdf
https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-1342  - "Then This article has been retracted. See Notice of Retraction."
https://fee.org/articles/new-study-casts-more-doubt-on-effectiveness-of-masks-in-preventing-covid-19-spread/
There is so much more.

Some countries are not mandating masks because of the uncertain "science".


Im sure their are many that believe if can be counterproductive in MANY circumstances and its just used as comforting method.


Memory lane doesn't have to be short
First we have studies showing hydroxyquine doesn't help and then those studies are proven to be filled with errors, then studies showing it does help, science is not STRAIGHT like people want it to be, or think it is.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2020, 10:34:38 PM by KSMH »
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Online Euclid

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #895 on: September 10, 2020, 10:39:59 PM »
Story currently circulating:

There's a parent who currently has Covid and the doctor told them that Daas Torah says that the kids should go to school.

(Not sure which doctor.)

Offline sillypainter

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #896 on: September 10, 2020, 10:44:23 PM »
There is a story circulating that Euclid is a city in Ohio.

Online Euclid

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #897 on: September 10, 2020, 10:45:14 PM »
There is a story circulating that Euclid is a city in Ohio.
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Offline cmey

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #898 on: September 10, 2020, 10:57:55 PM »
It’s hard to convince the average person on the street that Covid is still as deadly as March when a look at the charts seems to show startling differences.




Online S209

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #899 on: September 10, 2020, 11:09:54 PM »
It’s hard to convince the average person on the street that Covid is still as deadly as March when a look at the charts seems to show startling differences.



Right, so because this is the Lakewood COVID thread, do you think that Lakewood had a total of 2,000 cases of COVID?
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