Author Topic: Lakewood covid cases  (Read 522656 times)

Offline Yard sale

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Re: Lakewood cases
« Reply #220 on: August 29, 2020, 09:53:37 PM »
The problem with your attitude is that by the time the numbers become "alarming," great damage has already been done to too many people. Just wear a damn mask!
The problem with raising the alarm when daily cases are mostly in the single digits is that people won’t listen if there is a real need to sound the alarm. Doctors have already lost credibility with many some Rabbonim due to the stance taken after pesach which may have been a reasonable approach but was out of sync with the reality on the ground. Running around Lakewood and yelling at everyone to “just wear the ——- mask” is actually detrimental to the cause long term.


Offline S209

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Re: Lakewood cases
« Reply #221 on: August 29, 2020, 09:56:00 PM »
The problem with raising the alarm when daily cases are mostly in the single digits is that people won’t listen if there is a real need to sound the alarm. Doctors have already lost credibility with many some Rabbonim due to the stance taken after pesach which may have been a reasonable approach but was out of sync with the reality on the ground. Running around Lakewood and yelling at everyone to “just wear the ——- mask” is actually detrimental to the cause long term.
You do realize everyone in the civilized world is wearing masks, yes?

Also, what would be a number that would be considered “a real need to sound the alarm”? I believe some here have gone on the record with 20 a week as the baseline. What would be yours?

..... and finally. Are you still impressed with the “emunah” some have in a second wave coming, or do your eyes and ears tell you that there’s still no way such a thing can occur?
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Offline Yard sale

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Re: Lakewood cases
« Reply #222 on: August 29, 2020, 09:58:41 PM »
The Nazi's plan for a master race included letting the sick and infirm die to strengthen the gene pool. It seems some in our community have taken the same approach, "I'm in good health why should I worry about Corona"
What are you trying to say? Doesn’t it make eminent sense to tell vulnerable people to be extra cautious and stay away from places where there is the potential for spread?

The University of Alabama had over 1000 students test positive in the past two weeks. Zero hospitalizations. If the students are not particularly worried I get that. But doesn’t it make sense for older people to stay far away? Just common sense.

Offline Yard sale

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Re: Lakewood cases
« Reply #223 on: August 29, 2020, 10:05:42 PM »
You do realize everyone in the civilized world is wearing masks, yes?

Also, what would be a number that would be considered “a real need to sound the alarm”? I believe some here have gone on the record with 20 a week as the baseline. What would be yours?

..... and finally. Are you still impressed with the “emunah” some have in a second wave coming, or do your eyes and ears tell you that there’s still no way such a thing can occur?
There is no evidence that I am aware of of significant community (tertiary) spread at this time. As long as cases are largely confined to primary contact with contagious out of towners, and secondary spread to family members there is no basis for alarm. A large amount of community spread from unknown sources is when alarm is warranted. This is not a second wave, and I do not envision one coming to Lakewood.

Maybe the doctors would be better off using their resources to combat some of the misinformation and educate the community about the basic facts. You have a very prominent personage telling people that no one died of Covid; the doctors killed them all in the hospitals, and that the fact that one doesn’t hear of many childhood leukemia diagnosis in the past few months is evidence that they were caused by vaccinations, or that masks make people sick. Others are telling people that the whole aiva parsha was a lie- it never happened that doctors and nurses blamed it on minyanim etc. It’s time for a fact checking and public information campaign in those areas. That would be a good use of resources at this time.

« Last Edit: August 29, 2020, 10:26:44 PM by Yard sale »

Offline Lurker

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Re: Lakewood cases
« Reply #224 on: August 29, 2020, 10:13:22 PM »
The problem with raising the alarm when daily cases are mostly in the single digits is that people won’t listen if there is a real need to sound the alarm. Doctors have already lost credibility with many some Rabbonim due to the stance taken after pesach which may have been a reasonable approach but was out of sync with the reality on the ground. Running around Lakewood and yelling at everyone to “just wear the ——- mask” is actually detrimental to the cause long term.

I get it. We don't want to panic the people, because there's no reason to panic right now. No need for a "boy who cried wolf" situation. You know what? I agree with you 100%.

Here's what's tripping me up. Why is there only one alarm? Why does it have to be lockdown or normal? Where's the nuance? And why is wearing a mask, something THE ENTIRE WORLD is doing, considering so crazy that people in Lakewood will panic?
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Offline S209

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Re: Lakewood cases
« Reply #225 on: August 29, 2020, 10:23:30 PM »
There is no evidence that I am aware of of significant community (tertiary) spread at this time. As long as cases are largely confined to primary contact with contagious out of towners, and secondary spread to family members there is no basis for alarm. A large amount of community spread from unknown sources is when alarm is warranted. This is not a second wave, and I do not envision one coming to Lakewood.


What would you call “a large amount”? Surely you want to *prevent* what has previously occurred, not *react* to that? So what would you define as significant community spread? Also, considering how exponentially fast this virus seems to spread, how are you confident that it won’t be too late?

A little reminder: those who said they were “waiting” last time ended up waiting until it was too late.

And finally. Why aren’t masks warranted now? What aveira are we encouraging?
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Offline avromie7

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Re: Lakewood cases
« Reply #226 on: August 29, 2020, 10:27:47 PM »
I get it. We don't want to panic the people, because there's no reason to panic right now. No need for a "boy who cried wolf" situation. You know what? I agree with you 100%.

Here's what's tripping me up. Why is there only one alarm? Why does it have to be lockdown or normal? Where's the nuance? And why is wearing a mask, something THE ENTIRE WORLD is doing, considering so crazy that people in Lakewood will panic?
I think we already have a boy who cried wolf situation, and it will take a lot to overcome it. Panicking over an average of less than 10 cases per day without community spread is why people continue to lose faith. The email from a doctor posted here this week is exactly what we should be seeing, no "wear a mask or else" or "the world is coming to an end" rhetoric, just the basic facts with a hint at masks. I can guarantee you, that doctors office will have a bigger effect if the time comes to pull the alarm than everyone else in town who's been screaming every time the number of cases tick up.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline avromie7

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Re: Lakewood cases
« Reply #227 on: August 29, 2020, 10:29:29 PM »
And finally. Why aren’t masks warranted now? What aveira are we encouraging?
Because people won't wear them now AND they won't wear them if the situation gets bad if you continue crying wolf every time there's a mouse.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline S209

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Re: Lakewood cases
« Reply #228 on: August 29, 2020, 10:30:12 PM »
I think we already have a boy who cried wolf situation, and it will take a lot to overcome it. Panicking over an average of less than 10 cases per day without community spread is why people continue to lose faith. The email from a doctor posted here this week is exactly what we should be seeing, no "wear a mask or else" or "the world is coming to an end" rhetoric, just the basic facts with a hint at masks. I can guarantee you, that doctors office will have a bigger effect if the time comes to pull the alarm than everyone else in town who's been screaming every time the number of cases tick up.
One could argue we’ve had a wolf situation, and the boy who cried was actually vindicated.
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Offline S209

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Re: Lakewood cases
« Reply #229 on: August 29, 2020, 10:30:41 PM »
Because people won't wear them now AND they won't wear them if the situation gets bad if you continue crying wolf every time there's a mouse.
So is your answer that people are stupid?

Your argument is that we should wait until people are dead, like we did last time, because otherwise they won’t listen. Aha.
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Offline avromie7

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Re: Lakewood cases
« Reply #230 on: August 29, 2020, 10:31:35 PM »
So is your answer that people are stupid?
No, the answer is people tune you out when you cry wolf.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline S209

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Re: Lakewood cases
« Reply #231 on: August 29, 2020, 10:32:03 PM »
No, the answer is people tune you out when you cry wolf.
Umm. Newsflash. The wolf came. People died.
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Offline avromie7

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Re: Lakewood cases
« Reply #232 on: August 29, 2020, 10:32:43 PM »
One could argue we’ve had a wolf situation, and the boy who cried was actually vindicated.
Umm. Newsflash. The wolf came. People died.
Comparing March when we had no idea what was going on, to now is ridiculous.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline S209

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Re: Lakewood cases
« Reply #233 on: August 29, 2020, 10:33:37 PM »
Who’s “we”? In March, as now, you were claiming it won’t be as bad as it got, and argued with others who were proven right. Define how your stance has changed.
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Offline Lurker

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Re: Lakewood cases
« Reply #234 on: August 29, 2020, 10:34:14 PM »
I think we already have a boy who cried wolf situation, and it will take a lot to overcome it. Panicking over an average of less than 10 cases per day without community spread is why people continue to lose faith. The email from a doctor posted here this week is exactly what we should be seeing, no "wear a mask or else" or "the world is coming to an end" rhetoric, just the basic facts with a hint at masks. I can guarantee you, that doctors office will have a bigger effect if the time comes to pull the alarm than everyone else in town who's been screaming every time the number of cases tick up.

No one is screaming and no one is panicking. This lack of nuance is beneath you. Wearing a mask is universally accepted. No one is saying, "wear a mask or else." They are begging, I am begging, please wear a mask so that we never have to come to a point where there is panic. It's purely a preventive measure.
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Offline yesitsme

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Re: Lakewood cases
« Reply #235 on: August 29, 2020, 10:36:46 PM »
Wearing a mask is universally accepted.
Azoy?
["-"]

Offline S209

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Re: Lakewood cases
« Reply #236 on: August 29, 2020, 10:36:50 PM »
Comparing March when we had no idea what was going on, to now is ridiculous.
I still have yet to hear why masks *aren’t* warranted, and what you would consider an amount worthy of concern. Obviously waiting for many hospitalizations and deaths would be a poor baseline, as that would mean we already lost. Apparently we are not there yet. So what would you consider there?
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Offline S209

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Re: Lakewood cases
« Reply #237 on: August 29, 2020, 10:37:04 PM »
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Offline Lurker

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Re: Lakewood cases
« Reply #238 on: August 29, 2020, 10:38:39 PM »
Azoy?

Outside of frum communities and the radical 'Murica crowd? Yes. Globally.
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Offline ari3

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Re: Lakewood cases
« Reply #239 on: August 29, 2020, 10:46:53 PM »
The Nazi's plan for a master race included letting the sick and infirm die to strengthen the gene pool. It seems some in our community have taken the same approach, "I'm in good health why should I worry about Corona"
you are out of your mind!

One thing is for sure, writing stupid things like that won't convince anyone to wear a mask or avoid large gatherings