Author Topic: Lakewood covid cases  (Read 522854 times)

Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 17404
  • Total likes: 14342
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #700 on: September 08, 2020, 10:56:29 PM »
No one is disputing that covid was far deadlier than flu in March. The question is are we blowing things out of proportion now?
Flu season is in the winter.
What is leasing you to think that it is less severe now than then?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline shulemw

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Mar 2012
  • Posts: 375
  • Total likes: 32
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #701 on: September 08, 2020, 11:05:26 PM »
The 2 sides here would never agree one to the other so I really don't see a point to argue so much. I don't think the argument boils down to numbers and data so....

everybody has his shitah already and tries to see any way how to prove he is right

Nobody will say that people did not die in the masses in March and that people are not sick now. no argument on this

Argument between big rabanim and rebbes is how to react to this situation and it has nothing with us to take a side on it. Everybody should just follow his rav that he always followed till now and finish.

argument of the rabanim on the side that advocate for following all the social distincing measures is simple: not to cause deaths and hospitilization and stop the spread

argument of the other rabanim against all SD measures: is all the other side affects that come with all this SD, the affect it has on young children for years to come, the affect it has on youth at risk, the affect it had on all isolated eldery people, the affect it had on torah learning, the affect it had on people with serious illness that did not get proper treatments.

But i dont get why us small people should argue about this a whole day. just follow the rav you followed till now

P.S. i do believe my rav to know more and be more clever then all clever people here, and i really hope you all think like this of your rav too

The

Offline Baruch

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2013
  • Posts: 2604
  • Total likes: 335
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #702 on: September 08, 2020, 11:07:50 PM »
2 of my cousins tested positive today in Lakewood

BTW, Dr Lebowitz isn't buying the virus got weaker theory at all.

Offline cmey

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 432
  • Total likes: 260
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: lakewood
Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #703 on: September 08, 2020, 11:24:19 PM »
What is leasing you to think that it is less severe now than then?
Other posters have said at a minimum hundreds sick. Zero mortality. Near zero hospitalizations. Add in Monsey, BP, Queens, etc. and there are thousands of cases with a few hospitalized. That’s very different than March.

Offline yuneeq

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jan 2013
  • Posts: 8611
  • Total likes: 4000
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 10
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: NJ
Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #704 on: September 08, 2020, 11:34:27 PM »
Other posters have said at a minimum hundreds sick. Zero mortality. Near zero hospitalizations. Add in Monsey, BP, Queens, etc. and there are thousands of cases with a few hospitalized. That’s very different than March.

How do these numbers compare to a week before Purim?
Visibly Jewish

Offline chevron

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 2552
  • Total likes: 543
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #705 on: September 08, 2020, 11:40:51 PM »
Other posters have said at a minimum hundreds sick. Zero mortality. Near zero hospitalizations. Add in Monsey, BP, Queens, etc. and there are thousands of cases with a few hospitalized. That’s very different than March.

You really do not have a handle on reality.

It's much different now because people are much more aware of the symptoms.

anybody who got it in February or March most likely assumed that they had the flu..

Hundreds getting sick in population of hundreds of thousands means nothing.

Sure, less die due to better treatment, drugs, earlier intervention.

You're playing Monday morning quarterback on a Saturday.

You have your logic, it has no basis in reality, you make wild guesses and assumptions. .

Yes people are dying,

Offline Lurker

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jul 2019
  • Posts: 5054
  • Total likes: 6390
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
  • Location: As always, silence is NOT an admission of agreement on DDF. It just means that people lack the stamina to keep on arguing with made up "facts", illogical arguments, deceiving statements, nasty and degrading comments, and fuzzy math. - @yelped
Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #706 on: September 08, 2020, 11:42:39 PM »
You really do not have a handle on reality.

You're playing Monday morning quarterback on a Saturday.

Man, you are on a roll!!!
Failing at maintaining Lurker status.

Offline cmey

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 432
  • Total likes: 260
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: lakewood
Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #707 on: September 08, 2020, 11:55:24 PM »
You really do not have a handle on reality.

It's much different now because people are much more aware of the symptoms.

anybody who got it in February or March most likely assumed that they had the flu..

Hundreds getting sick in population of hundreds of thousands means nothing.

Sure, less die due to better treatment, drugs, earlier intervention.

You're playing Monday morning quarterback on a Saturday.

You have your logic, it has no basis in reality, you make wild guesses and assumptions. .

Yes people are dying,
If you say so



Offline Lurker

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jul 2019
  • Posts: 5054
  • Total likes: 6390
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
  • Location: As always, silence is NOT an admission of agreement on DDF. It just means that people lack the stamina to keep on arguing with made up "facts", illogical arguments, deceiving statements, nasty and degrading comments, and fuzzy math. - @yelped
Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #708 on: September 09, 2020, 12:00:17 AM »
Other posters have said at a minimum hundreds sick. Zero mortality. Near zero hospitalizations. Add in Monsey, BP, Queens, etc. and there are thousands of cases with a few hospitalized. That’s very different than March.

Let's say you're right: this is all an overreaction and the concern is unwarranted. At what point would you say that changes? What signs or numbers would you look for to warrant concern and extra precautions?
Failing at maintaining Lurker status.

Offline Euclid

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 4912
  • Total likes: 6144
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 5
    • View Profile
Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #709 on: September 09, 2020, 12:06:01 AM »
Let's say you're right: this is all an overreaction and the concern is unwarranted. At what point would you say that changes? What signs or numbers would you look for to warrant concern and extra precautions?

(this isn't directed at @cmey specifically)

There are no numbers or signs; it's plain ol' optimism bias (with a dash of normalcy bias).

"It's not going to affect me negatively (and I really, really just want to get back to normal)."

Offline cmey

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 432
  • Total likes: 260
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: lakewood
Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #710 on: September 09, 2020, 12:09:34 AM »
Let's say you're right: this is all an overreaction and the concern is unwarranted. At what point would you say that changes? What signs or numbers would you look for to warrant concern and extra precautions?
We are not there right now. What do we do if things do get worse? IDK. Maybe it’s time to just ride it out. That’s what was done for the last hundred years until 2020. England is banning more than 6 people indoors due to resurgence. Again. Israel Is locking down due to resurgence. Again. Maybe it’s better to ride it out with some restrictions as needed in places where there is an immediate risk of overwhelming the system. Wasn’t that the original game plan?

Offline Euclid

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 4912
  • Total likes: 6144
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 5
    • View Profile
Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #711 on: September 09, 2020, 12:13:49 AM »
We are not there right now. What do we do if things do get worse? IDK. Maybe it’s time to just ride it out. That’s what was done for the last hundred years until 2020. England is banning more than 6 people indoors due to resurgence. Again. Israel Is locking down due to resurgence. Again. Maybe it’s better to ride it out with some restrictions as needed in places where there is an immediate risk of overwhelming the system. Wasn’t that the original game plan?
Like cutting back on weddings and wearing masks?

Offline cmey

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 432
  • Total likes: 260
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: lakewood
Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #712 on: September 09, 2020, 12:15:16 AM »
Like cutting back on weddings and wearing masks?
Is there an immediate risk of overwhelming the system? Hatzolah running out of ambulances? Hospitals at capacity? Then yes.

Offline Lurker

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jul 2019
  • Posts: 5054
  • Total likes: 6390
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
  • Location: As always, silence is NOT an admission of agreement on DDF. It just means that people lack the stamina to keep on arguing with made up "facts", illogical arguments, deceiving statements, nasty and degrading comments, and fuzzy math. - @yelped
Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #713 on: September 09, 2020, 12:17:23 AM »
We are not there right now. What do we do if things do get worse? IDK. Maybe it’s time to just ride it out. That’s what was done for the last hundred years until 2020. England is banning more than 6 people indoors due to resurgence. Again. Israel Is locking down due to resurgence. Again. Maybe it’s better to ride it out with some restrictions as needed in places where there is an immediate risk of overwhelming the system. Wasn’t that the original game plan?

That's a lot to unwrap... It's too early to do anything now, but when it gets worse, whatever worse means, do nothing then, too. That's what we've done for the last 100 years during non-pandemic times, so we should just keep doing that. And reactive measures are being taken again, and we don't want that, so let's not take any preventive measures to ensure... reactive measures become necessary?

I'm having trouble understanding your position.
Failing at maintaining Lurker status.

Offline cmey

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 432
  • Total likes: 260
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: lakewood
Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #714 on: September 09, 2020, 12:26:15 AM »
That's a lot to unwrap... It's too early to do anything now, but when it gets worse, whatever worse means, do nothing then, too. That's what we've done for the last 100 years during non-pandemic times, so we should just keep doing that. And reactive measures are being taken again, and we don't want that, so let's not take any preventive measures to ensure... reactive measures become necessary?

I'm having trouble understanding your position.
The last 100 years during previous pandemics the reaction was not to shut down the entire country. Indeed, the game plan in March had one goal: flatten the curve. Stop the healthcare system from being overwhelmed.

If the goal is to keep hospitals from being overwhelmed and let covid run it’s course then you take action only when there is an imminent threat of the system being overwhelmed.

If your game plan is to hold off until a vaccine hopefully saves the world then you can try what England and Israel are doing. Even so the current situation does not look to be as alarming as some are making it out to be.


 
« Last Edit: September 09, 2020, 12:30:22 AM by cmey »

Offline Euclid

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 4912
  • Total likes: 6144
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 5
    • View Profile
Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #715 on: September 09, 2020, 12:31:32 AM »
The last 100 years during previous pandemics the reaction was not to shut down the entire country.
If the goal is to keep hospitals from being overwhelmed and let covid run it’s course then you take action only when there is an imminent threat of the system being overwhelmed.

If your game plan is to hold off until a vaccine hopefully saves the world then you can try what England and Israel are doing. Even so the current situation does not look to be as alarming as some are making it out to be.
Who said anything about that?? You know that we are discussing minor precautions e.g. masks and wedding restrictions; you literally just agreed that those will be required if things get too bad.


Your position is that we should react, instead of taking proactive measures. That's where the disagreement is; there's no debate about the actual measures.

Offline Lurker

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jul 2019
  • Posts: 5054
  • Total likes: 6390
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
  • Location: As always, silence is NOT an admission of agreement on DDF. It just means that people lack the stamina to keep on arguing with made up "facts", illogical arguments, deceiving statements, nasty and degrading comments, and fuzzy math. - @yelped
Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #716 on: September 09, 2020, 12:34:51 AM »
The last 100 years during previous pandemics the reaction was not to shut down the entire country.
If the goal is to keep hospitals from being overwhelmed and let covid run it’s course then you take action only when there is an imminent threat of the system being overwhelmed.

1) Which previous pandemics over the last 100 years?

2) When did keeping the hospitals from being overwhelmed become THE goal in dealing with the virus? It was one of the goals in the beginning, when it was a real concern. But the one and only goal?

3) You've mentioned locking down and shutting down the country a few times. You understand that the measures everyone is talking about here is to prevent that from happening, right? Doing nothing, like you suggest, makes a shutdown to avoid catastrophe more likely, not less.

If your game plan is to hold off until a vaccine hopefully saves the world then you can try what England and Israel are doing. Even so the current situation does not look to be as alarming as some are making it out to be.

My game plan is to take proactive measures to avoid what is happening in England and Israel altogether. Neither of those countries are models to emulate, IMO. As I stated before, the problem with reacting to facts on the ground is that you're always a few steps behind, and getting behind in this game virtually guarantees drastic measures will be taken to try to make up ground.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2020, 12:40:06 AM by Lurker »
Failing at maintaining Lurker status.

Offline ShimshonK

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2018
  • Posts: 550
  • Total likes: 148
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #717 on: September 09, 2020, 12:37:04 AM »
The last 100 years during previous pandemics the reaction was not to shut down the entire country. Indeed, the game plan in March had one goal: flatten the curve. Stop the healthcare system from being overwhelmed.

If the goal is to keep hospitals from being overwhelmed and let covid run it’s course then you take action only when there is an imminent threat of the system being overwhelmed.

If your game plan is to hold off until a vaccine hopefully saves the world then you can try what England and Israel are doing. Even so the current situation does not look to be as alarming as some are making it out to be.
One of the greatest 'benefits' of a pandemic in today's world as opposed to 100 years ago is all the access to science, etc. that's now available. Your goal is to live like we didn't have this lifesaving science?

Offline cmey

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 432
  • Total likes: 260
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: lakewood
Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #718 on: September 09, 2020, 12:45:48 AM »
1) Which previous pandemics over the last 100 years?

2) When did keeping the hospitals from being overwhelmed become THE goal in dealing with the virus? It was one of the goals in the beginning, when it was a real concern. But the one and only goal?

3) You've mentioned locking down and shutting down the country a few times. You understand that the measures everyone is talking about here is to prevent that from happening, right? Doing nothing, like you suggest, makes a shutdown to avoid catastrophe more likely, not less.

My game plan is to take proactive measures to avoid what is happening in England and Israel altogether. Neither of those countries are models to emulate, IMO. As I stated before, the problem with reacting to facts on the ground is that you're always a few steps behind, and getting behind in this game virtually guarantees drastic measures will be taken to try to make up ground.

https://nypost.com/2020/09/06/its-now-looking-like-the-lockdowns-may-have-been-a-huge-mistake/?utm_source=url_sitebuttons&utm_medium=site%20buttons&utm_campaign=site%20buttons

Quote
Certainly, they were a novelty. As novelist Lionel Shriver writes, “We’ve never before responded to a contagion by closing down whole countries.” As I’ve noted, the 1957-58 Asian flu killed between 70,000 and 116,000 Americans, between 0.04 percent and 0.07 percent of the nation’s population. The 1968-70 Hong Kong flu killed about 100,000, 0.05 percent of the population.

The US coronavirus death toll of 186,000 is 0.055 percent of the current population. It will go higher, but it’s about the same magnitude as those two flus, and it has been less deadly to those under 65 than the flus were. Yet there were no statewide lockdowns; no massive school closings; no closings of office buildings and factories, restaurants and museums. No one considered shutting down Woodstock.

Offline Lurker

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jul 2019
  • Posts: 5054
  • Total likes: 6390
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
  • Location: As always, silence is NOT an admission of agreement on DDF. It just means that people lack the stamina to keep on arguing with made up "facts", illogical arguments, deceiving statements, nasty and degrading comments, and fuzzy math. - @yelped
Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #719 on: September 09, 2020, 12:51:18 AM »
https://nypost.com/2020/09/06/its-now-looking-like-the-lockdowns-may-have-been-a-huge-mistake/?utm_source=url_sitebuttons&utm_medium=site%20buttons&utm_campaign=site%20buttons

Quote
Certainly, they were a novelty. As novelist Lionel Shriver writes, “We’ve never before responded to a contagion by closing down whole countries.” As I’ve noted, the 1957-58 Asian flu killed between 70,000 and 116,000 Americans, between 0.04 percent and 0.07 percent of the nation’s population. The 1968-70 Hong Kong flu killed about 100,000, 0.05 percent of the population.

The US coronavirus death toll of 186,000 is 0.055 percent of the current population. It will go higher, but it’s about the same magnitude as those two flus, and it has been less deadly to those under 65 than the flus were. Yet there were no statewide lockdowns; no massive school closings; no closings of office buildings and factories, restaurants and museums. No one considered shutting down Woodstock.

This only seems to address my question about previous pandemics in the last 100 years. Neither of those viruses were nearly as contagious as Covid, and their death tolls in their entirety are less than Covid's first wave alone. Regardless, this seems to be an argument against lockdowns, which no one here has advocated for.
Failing at maintaining Lurker status.